HomeMy WebLinkAboutPublic Works November 28 20001
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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Public Works and Capital Projects Committee
November 28, 2000
The meeting was called to order at 1:30 p.m. by Committee Chair Barbara
Brenner in the Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
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Also Present: Absent:
Marlene Dawson None
Dan McShane
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COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
4. PRESENTATION BY MIKE KAUFMAN REGARDING THE SUMAS ENERGY
2 PROJECT (AB2000-074A)
(Clerk’s Note: Due to his membership on the Energy Facility Site Evaluation
Council, Councilmember McShane was absent from this discussion.)
Mike Kaufman, Generations Affected by Senseless Power (GASP) member,
stated Dr. Easterbrook would present information on a project that he's been
working on. As an organization, GASP has been working to research and
understand the various aspects of the Sumas Energy 2 (SE2) generating process,
as well as the Energy Facility Site Evaluation Council (EFSEC), draft environmental
impact statement (DEIS), adjudicative, and intervener processes that work with
SE2. In researching the geological site of SE2, he became acquainted with Dr.
Easterbrook, who is an extremely accredited geologist and member of the
community who lives in Bellingham. Dr. Easterbrook informed him of a specific
project he was working on, which directly relates to the SE2 industrial site. Dr.
Easterbrook works along with his colleagues Dr. David Engebretson, who is a
professor of geology at Western Washington University (WWU) and a seismological
expert, and Dr. Dori Kovanen, who is a Ph.D. candidate at the University of British
Columbia (UBC). Dr. Easterbrook is not employed by GASP.
Don Easterbrook, Western Washington University Professor of Geology,
provided information on his background. He is a professor of geology at Western
Washington University, now emeritus. He just completed his 40th year there. He
studied the geology of Whatcom County for all of those 40 years. He worked on a
number of projects that involves the earthquake seismic hazard, landslide hazards,
and various other environmental problems in Whatcom County. In terms of his
general background, he has been chairman of the National Organization for
Geologists. He's been on a number of national committees. He has presented
papers in 20 countries overseas. He has published about 140 professional papers
and eight books.
Brenner stated that he was very qualified.
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Easterbrook stated that he's been around for awhile and knows the geology
in Whatcom County pretty well. First of all, neither him, David Engebretson, nor
Dori Kovanen are advocates of anything. They were simply asked for information.
His role is as a provider of information. The project that they've been working on
includes an assessment of seismic hazards, local faults in particular, that relate to
the seismicity of the area and also relate to large landslides that occur in the
Nooksack Valley that may be seismically induced. That is how they've come to
study the particular area he would talk about. In the process of that study, they
found some new things that weren't known before, using new techniques and
technology. The area of their interest, which is Sumas, is right on a major fault
that is bounded by another fault on the other side of the valley. The entire Sumas
Valley has dropped down at least 1,000 feet in very recent geologic time.
Furthermore, they now know that one of the faults they've been studying, the
Sumas-Vedder Mountain fault, extends all the way out to the San Juan islands. Its
extent, therefore, is about 65 miles. It can also be traced up into Canada. It is a
major fault. It is not just a little one. It is a big one. They've also found evidence
of seismic activity on that fault, which he would show. They've done some
subsurface work. They've done some work that relates to the timing of some of
these events and have spent a fair amount of time trying to document exactly what
is going on in that part of Whatcom County, not just the Sumas Valley. He
submitted several maps of the area.
One diagram is a digital elevation model they constructed with the computer.
It is very accurate. It depicts the topography of the area. The area of interest is a
ditch-like feature that extends northeast to southwest, headed for Whatcom
County.
Brenner asked for an indication of what areas are along that fault.
Easterbrook described on the map the areas that are located along the fault. The
Vedder Mountain-Sucia fault has been known for many years. They've found
offsets to the middle of the county, southwest of Everson, where bedrock outcrops
at the surface, and the other side of the fault is covered by a deep thickness of
unconsolidated sediment, which means that the bedrock has been displaced
downward on the north side.
Brenner questioned whether it is lower on the north side of the fault.
Easterbrook stated that was right.
Easterbrook continued to state that they've traced this from Vedder
Mountain, through the central part of the county. If they follow it on out, it goes
across Sucia Island, north of Orcas Island.
Dawson questioned the upland area where it first leaves the coast. She
questioned whether that area was Cherry Point. Easterbrook explained the location
of various areas on the map. The red dots on the map are locations of epicenters.
The bigger the red dot is, the larger the earthquake was. Dave Engebretson
located the epicenters of all the earthquakes that have ever been recorded in
Whatcom County. Unfortunately, this only goes back to about 1964. They have a
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very short record. During that time period, they they've had a lot of earthquakes in
Whatcom County. There is an alignment of earthquakes along the Vedder
Mountain-Sucia fault. There is no other reason why there would be an earthquake
unless there is a fault. Faults produce earthquakes. These earthquakes tell them
that there is not a dead fault. There is an active fault. With this many earthquakes
in only 36 years, there is a fair amount of seismic activity. It tells them that the
fault is active.
Brenner asked Dr. Easterbrook to point out Cherry Point. Easterbrook
pointed out Cherry Point and stated it is just to the north of the fault. The biggest
dot is a magnitude five earthquake. The big earthquakes in California have been
about sevens. The biggest earthquake in Whatcom County was just to the east of
Concrete in 1872 and a magnitude of 7.4 on the Richter Scale.
Brenner questioned the magnitude of the earthquake in the San Juans.
Easterbrook stated that was a magnitude six. The difference between the
magnitude five earthquakes and magnitude seven earthquakes is 100 times the
intensity.
There is another fault just to the north of the Vedder Mountain- Sucia fault.
The unnamed fault has also been known for a long period of time. It has been
mapped in Canada by the Canadian geological survey. He displayed a piece of a
geologic map that was made by the geological survey. They have mapped the
Vedder Mountain fault across the border. It goes well up into Canada and goes an
unknown distance. The unnamed fault is the fault of interest here. It is buried in
most places by unconsolidated sediments in the valley. It is known to be there on
the basis of subsurface evidence. The town of Sumas is in the lower left-hand
corner of the map.
Brenner questioned whether the town of Sumas is closer to the Vedder fault
or the unnamed fault. Easterbrook stated it is right on the unnamed fault.
Brenner questioned the distance between the two faults. Easterbrook stated
they are about a mile and a half apart. The reason for the valley at Sumas is that
the entire valley dropped down about 1,000 feet. The Vedder Mountain fault and
the unnamed fault are on either sides of the valley. Between the two faults, the
valley dropped down. They don't know the age of the sediments, so they don't
know how much time has elapsed, but because there are unconsolidated sediments
instead of rock, they know it's very young. It goes way down below sea level. In
order to get 1,000 feet of displacement and still have only unconsolidated
sediments, the sediments are quite young and the rate of movement along the
faults has been spectacular. They now know that there are two sources of potential
seismic hazard. One source is earthquakes generated by the Vedder Mountain fault
on the south side of the valley, which is within about one and a half miles from
Sumas. That is very close. If they get a reasonably good size earthquake on the
Vedder Mountain fault, it will be very destructive. There would be a significant
impact from the earthquake.
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These faults, because they are at the surface and because the earthquakes
are very shallow, produces sources of earthquakes that are very close to the
ground surface. They might get a magnitude nine earthquake out on the coast,
which is coming, but it will be so far away that Whatcom County will get a rolling
ground motion. These earthquakes along local faults are very shallow, but they are
very close, so the shaking will be much more intense and, therefore, potentially
more damaging.
Brenner questioned whether they have any more idea how much lower the
valley will settle. Easterbrook stated they don't really know. This is based on some
wells that have been drilled in the valley and that have penetrated 1,000 feet of
unconsolidated sediment. He didn't know whether the well driller hit bedrock at
that point, or whether that was the bottom of the hole. There is some suggestion
that it might go even deeper, but they don't know that. They are working on
getting some deep bore hole corings that were made by some oil companies and
gas companies, but this is all proprietary information so its not easy to get.
The difficulty that this poses on the town of Sumas and in the nearby area is
that there is a substantial hazard, a substantial seismic risk, in this entire valley as
well as a large part of Whatcom County, which is in close proximity to the two
faults.
All this is to set the scene and have a view of the potential seismic hazard in
the area. There are four different kinds of hazards. The first hazard is the shaking
itself. The shaking causes buildings to collapse because the intensity of the shaking
exerts forces on the structural members of buildings that causes them to fail. The
number one hazard, or the first of the seismic hazards, is seismic shaking. One
could literally shake most anything down if he or she is close enough.
The seismic shaking hazard increases with the size of the earthquake. The
bigger the earthquake, the more shaking intensity there is. The proximity of the
sources also intensifies the shaking.
Brenner questioned whether the intensity also depends on how shallow the
earthquake is. Easterbrook stated that was correct. Proximity is in terms of lateral
distance and how far down the earthquake is. The earthquakes on the map are all
very shallow earthquakes. The proximity to the surface is small, considering how
far they are laterally. The principal hazard to the town of Sumas is that they are
right on the fault. They are not near it, they are right on it. They are close enough
to the Vedder Mountain fault, a mile and a half, that it is also an additional hazard
for seismic shaking.
The second hazard is ground failure, which means that a building would
collapse if the ground under the foundation slides away. There was a lot of this
that happened during the Alaska earthquake in 1964. Many of the buildings
collapsed because the ground simply slid out from under the foundations.
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There is another factor that goes into the entire question of ground failure.
That is a feature that is called earthquake liquefaction. Liquefaction means the
turning of silt or clay into behavior like a liquid so it actually flows. It is possible,
therefore, to map the nature of the material. Where there is clay that is susceptible
to liquefaction to flowage, they can show it on a map. He displayed a map
showing earthquake liquefaction. The red area on the map has a moderate to high
earthquake liquefaction potential. That means there is a strong likelihood that
anything in the red areas will fail by flowage. Sumas is on the very bottom of one
of the red areas, which extends into Whatcom County. The map was produced by
the Canadian Geological Survey and is very handy.
Brenner questioned whether they could get a map that shows the fault going
through Whatcom County. Easterbrook stated they haven't published this yet. It is
in a draft form, but they will have a map when it is published.
Easterbrook continued to state that Sumas lies right on the materials that
have a moderate to high potential for liquefaction. Some clays, if shaken or
squeezed, will drip like a liquid.
The third seismic hazard, which is considerable in this case, is offset along
the fault, which is movement of the land surface on the fault. A good example of
that is a fault in Seattle, the Kingdome fault. The extension of that goes out to
Bainbridge Island. They know that Bainbridge Island jumped 15 feet out of the
water 1,000 years ago. Fifteen or twenty feet of land can be offset in a fraction of
a second. There is a serious hazard for Sumas simply because they are right on the
fault. There will be serious problems if on the fault because no building can survive
a 15-foot offset through any part of it.
The fourth seismic hazard is from earthquake-generated landslides. It is a
secondary effect, but they can be serious. They have mapped more than half a
dozen huge bedrock landslides in the Nooksack Valley, the biggest of which is about
six miles long. Many are two to three miles across and two miles long. Ancient
earthquakes, they are reasonably sure, generated those earthquakes. They lie in a
zone of very intense earthquake activity, and nowhere else. The possible hazard
would be if there was movement in an earthquake from one of the two faults that
would generate a landslide from the adjacent Vedder Mountain or Sumas Mountain.
Brenner questioned whether the valley is called the Frasier Valley.
Easterbrook stated the Frasier River runs north of the valley. It has been called the
Sumas Prairie, but doesn't have a name on the other side of the valley, that he was
aware of.
Easterbrook continued to state that there are four considerable seismic risk
considerations, which are brought about by these particular geologic conditions.
Brenner questioned whether Dr. Easterbrook could come back and discuss
what they don't finish at this meeting. Easterbrook stated he could do that.
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Crawford questioned whether the two refineries and the Intalco plant also in
the general area of the fault. Easterbrook stated they are just north of it by several
miles.
Brenner questioned whether it makes a difference that they are several miles
north of it. Easterbrook stated that the further away one is, the better of he or she
is.
Brenner questioned whether several miles matter. When she thinks of an
earthquake, she thinks of large areas. Easterbrook stated it is not a matter of
safety.
Crawford questioned whether or not the unnamed fault that is parallel to the
Vedder fault runs parallel all the way through Whatcom County, similar to the
Vedder fault. Easterbrook stated they don't know that yet. They think they can
trace the Vedder Mountain fault all the way across now. It is likely that the
unnamed fault goes for quite some distance, but it is buried by a very thick mass of
unconsolidated sediment. They need subsurface data to get at it, and they don’t
have that subsurface data yet.
Crawford questioned whether the refineries could be in close proximity to the
unnamed fault if they are a mile and a half north of the Vedder fault. Easterbrook
stated they could be, although he wasn't saying that was the case. It certainly
possible, but they just don't know that.
Nelson asked for the implications of the faults and how people use this
research. Easterbrook stated it is used a lot in seismic risk assessment, which is to
get some idea of what the risk is of putting in large projects of one kind or another.
For example, the Skagit nuclear plant was a case in point where they have to have
extensive seismic risk analysis. There are varying rules and laws that apply to big
construction projects, depending on the nature of what it is. If it involves
hazardous materials, it is obviously a serious matter. In the case of whatever
might go in at Sumas, they would need to ask what might happen if there was
movement along the fault and any or all of the four seismic hazards were to occur.
For example, there were oil refineries set ablaze during the 1964 Alaska
earthquake. If there are flammable materials and breakage of whatever they are
stored in, which is very likely in an earthquake, they spill on the ground. If there is
containment area, that is fine, but sometimes the containment areas are destroyed
also, during an earthquake. It can get into local streams. In the case of Sumas,
there is a stream that goes right through town. If it is near that, flammable
materials could get into the stream and create a situation similar to the gasoline
explosion from Olympic Pipeline. If the materials were to go down a creek and be
ignited, it could be a really bad thing. That is what they use this kind of
information for, to assess what could happen and try to engineer around it, or go
somewhere else.
Nelson asked if this is new material. Easterbrook stated most of it is new,
except the Vedder Mountain fault and unnamed fault have been known for a long
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time. The things that haven't been known are the extent of the Vedder Mountain
fault across Whatcom County, the association of seismic activity, and the nature of
the material in the subsurface.
Brenner stated the councilmembers could put their questions together and
provide them to Dr. Easterbrook. She asked Dr. Easterbrook to come back to the
next Public Works Committee meeting on December 12 at 1:30 p.m. She also has
more questions. She thanked Dr. Easterbrook for the presentation.
Kaufman stated they now have the information. What they do with the
information is up to the County Council and elected officials. He would like the
Council to take action to let Senior Civil Deputy Prosecutor Dave Grant, as the
County's attorney for intervener proceedings, move this forward as quickly as
possible.
Brenner questioned whether this information has been brought up at EFSEC.
Kaufman stated it had not. EFSEC is in deliberation at this time. The record is
closed. He wants to put on the pressure.
Nelson stated that was not what he understood. This information has been
brought up in deliberations.
Brenner stated this was a legal question, and suggested discussion in
Committee of the Whole.
Hoag suggested continuing discussion at the end of the committee, after the
other items.
2. DISCUSSION REGARDING NORTH SHORE ROAD TRAFFIC SAFETY
CONCERNS (AB2000-401)
Jayne Mickas, 2361 North Shore Road, stated this is a safety issue. Her
husband is one of many in their neighborhood who have been hit head-on on the
2300 block of North Shore Road. She spoke with County Engineer Bruce Mills, who
was very cooperative in coming out immediately. He did not want to install turtles,
but did put in reflectors. They are wonderful at night. The reason they wanted
turtles instead of reflectors was because the accidents are head-on accidents
happening in the middle of the day. The reflectors work well at night, but she felt
the turtles would have worked better. The curves are at the rock cut, or the S
curves. They've also placed arrow signs, which will hopefully help. There have
been multiple accidents there.
Another safety issue is the bicyclists who travel the road. A driver has no
room to make for a bicyclist. She would like more studying done on this road.
There are 70 houses now that will be put in behind her, and would be about 400
feet from the S curves. She would like to see something done. She suggested stop
signs, blinking lights, or widening the road. There are few young people who go 25
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miles per hour on those S curves. She questioned whether the Sheriff could go out
to the location more often.
(Clerk’s Note: Councilmember McShane joined the meeting)
Bruce Mills, Assistant Director of Engineering, displayed a road turtle, a road
reflector, and recent photos of the work his division did at the location. They
installed the Type 2 reflective lane markers on five-foot centers. They are like a
bump, and a driver can feel them if he or she drifts over the centerline, which has
been a problem out there.
Brenner stated that the reflectors look as high as the turtles. Mills stated
they are. The turtles are not reflective. He felt that the reflectors would be a little
better.
Brenner asked if the reflectors were installed like turtles, or if there are just a
few. Mills stated they are installed on five-foot centers.
Brenner questioned whether that is just like how a turtle is installed. Mills
stated there are different ways to do it. In the City of Bellingham, they have the
turtles on three-foot centers, and the reflectors are every 25 feet. Bellingham has
more street lighting than areas in the county. That was one of the reasons why
they decided to use reflectors instead of turtles. The yellow signs are called
chevron signs. They are reflective and light up a little better at night.
Nelson stated he noticed the change right away. One of the problems on
North Shore road is that it is a windy road by the rock cut face. Anyone not familiar
with the road, who is going east, and who is going to fast can't help but go across
the centerline. It seems like an engineering design problem in that area. There is
no shoulder along a drop off. If a driver were to pass a bicyclist, then he or she
would commit a violation by crossing into another lane.
Brenner stated the purpose is to make people go as slow as possible.
Nelson stated speed is an issue, but there is also a design on that road. He
believed that North Shore Road was on the County's list of to-do's to fix that
problem. Mills stated it is. It is on the six-year plan. They are looking to move
items up.
Nelson stated those are issues they want to address. Mills agreed. They
have an opportunity to apply for some hazard elimination system money. That is
what he is doing. The application is due in December. This is one of the projects
he hoped would qualify for some matching funds. It would be strictly to fix the S
curve area.
Brenner asked how soon that area would be worked on if the County got
those funds. Mills stated it would take a good one to two years to go through the
design and permit process.
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Brenner asked when the reflectors were installed. Mills stated approximately
three weeks ago.
Mickas stated it was very soon after the accident. She complimented the
vegetation department, who came out and cut the trees back. They really have
made an effort. There are two walls of dirt, not the rock cut. She questioned
whether there was any way that some of the dirt could be removed temporarily so
people can see better. Mills stated he would be happy to go look at the area.
Mickas stated the area is where the chevrons furthest from town are located.
That is just dirt. There is no rock there. She questioned whether there was any
way to excavate that without a tremendous amount of permits.
Mills stated the curves are substandard. They need to be eased. There is no
doubt about that.
Brenner questioned whether they have to wait for federal matching money to
clean out some of those areas. Mills stated they don't have to. There are certain
things they can do with local funds. They've started doing some of the small ticket
items without moving dirt around, such as cut back the vegetation.
Mickas stated the reflectors are great at night.
Mills stated he would look at the other areas to see if there are some short-
term fixes that can get them a little more shoulder width in the interim.
(Clerk’s Note: End of tape one, side A.)
Nelson stated a lot of people are bicycling out that way.
Brenner stated that they would like to have a bike lane out there. Mills
stated that if they can get some matching funds, they would be sure to add proper
shoulders out there.
1. DISCUSSION REGARDING SIGNAGE CHANGE PROPOSED FOR
JOHNSON ROAD IN PT. ROBERTS (AB2000-400)
Bruce Mills, Assistant Director of Engineering, submitted a map of Point
Roberts, which shows Johnson Road. A few years ago, Johnson Road was extended
between Mill Road and Tyee Drive. When that happened, they discovered that the
traffic patterns are changing somewhat, particularly at the intersection of Johnson
Road and Mill Road. Before the project, there were approximately 600 vehicles per
day that went north-south on Mill Road, and about 600 vehicles that went east on
Johnson Road. Since they put the road through, there are approximately 875 cars
per day on Mill Road now and 1,650 cars that go east-west on Johnson Road. They
needed to look at the signage there. Originally, Mill Road was the through road.
Johnson Road was signed with stop signs. In looking at that, they decided to do
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some traffic studies to figure out whether it would be better to leave things as is,
switch the stop signs to Mill Road, or create a four-way stop.
Of the three options, they are looking at leaving it as is because the volumes
are still fairly low. The volumes he quoted were during the peak times in July.
Eight other months of the year, the traffic is a lot lower than that. Anytime they
change directions, it is awkward for the public. There is a marginal site distance to
the east, along Johnson Road. The visibility is within requirements, but barely.
Also, there have been no accidents out there. He felt that they should just continue
to monitor for now. If the traffic increases or becomes more disproportionate, it
may be time to look at doing some small improvements to the east, and then
switching the direction of the stop signs.
Brenner asked about the idea of having a community meeting to talk to the
residents and see what they prefer. Mills stated that a good time to bring this up
would be in a year and a half, when they do Tyee Drive.
Brenner asked to be informed when that meeting is scheduled. Also, she
could schedule that discussion for the Public Works Committee, to get input on the
projects the County is working on in Point Roberts. Her first reaction was to either
leave it alone or put in a four-way stop. It would be difficult to change people's
behaviors and practices if they change the direction of the stop signs.
3. UPDATE ON PT. ROBERTS SEAWALL (AB2000-402)
Dick Prieve, Assistant Director of Operations, stated he was available for
questions.
Brenner stated she talked to Paula Cooper, Special Projects Manager, about
this.
Dan Gibson, Senior Civil Deputy Prosecutor, stated attorneys have become
involved in this matter. He was in the process of speaking with them, representing
interests of various parties. They may feel under some constraint, at some point,
in terms of discussing this in a fashion that would potentially have an effect on
litigation.
Brenner questioned whether there are potential lawsuits. Gibson stated
there are.
Hoag stated one of her questions had to do with that. She questioned
whether it would be appropriate to have an executive session discussion. There
was policy that she wanted the Council to recommend, but it deals with litigation.
Brenner stated they could do that.
Dawson moved to go into executive session for five minutes to discuss
potential litigation.
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Motion carried unanimously.
(Clerk’s Note: Went into executive session at 2:25 p.m. Committee returned
from executive session at 2:35 p.m.)
Brenner stated they discussed legal items that were not appropriate for this
part of the meeting. She questioned what the public benefit was, if any, to build a
seawall on private property. She also questioned how it came through the Flood
Control Zone District Advisory Committee to begin with, and what they can do in
the future that pet projects like this don't use up the County's flood money. She
was very concerned. People are paying a lot into the flood tax, and are
complaining. This is a misuse of what she understood the flood tax is supposed to
be about. She was very upset about it, and wanted to make sure it wouldn't
happen again.
Prieve stated that every citizen pays into the flood fee. The chances of him
ever using any of the flood fee, based on where he lives, would be slim. However,
he didn't have a problem with that because he lives in the community and supports
the community. Most people feel the same. Everyone participates. That doesn't
mean they should exempt people who live along shorelines, hazardous bluffs, or
other areas that have an impact. When they look at those projects, and the
projects are brought to his attention, they are evaluated. Floods can occur
countywide, not just in the Nooksack River.
Brenner stated this project would have been a perfect reason for a local
improvement district (LID). She didn't understand why an LID wasn't considered
for this, rather than going into the flood money. She was very bothered and
concerned. Prieve stated it is a change in direction. They realize that. In May, he
brought it to the Council's Finance Committee to make sure they were going in the
right direction.
Brenner stated that was another problem she had. It was brought to the
Finance Committee, but not the full Council. This was something the Committee of
the Whole should be aware of, not just a committee. Prieve stated he agreed. In
the future, they would bring it to the Committee of the Whole, if that was their wish
and to make sure that all the councilmembers have a chance to comment. It was
brought forward that night to the full Council, from Councilmember Nelson, but it
probably got lost in the shuffle.
Brenner stated she didn't remember any discussion on it at all.
Dawson questioned when this was brought forward. Prieve stated he
believed it was discussed on May 30.
Brenner stated she didn't think the County Council discussed it. It was
discussed in Finance Committee. Prieve stated he brought it forward, but it wasn't
discussed.
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Brenner stated it was never approved.
Hoag stated it was never discussed.
Dawson stated a subcommittee cannot approve something.
Brenner stated it didn't come forward for approval. At this point, they don't
come to the Council for approval. The Flood Advisory Committee makes
recommendations. She wanted a change in policy so that any projects
recommended by the Flood Advisory Committee go to the County Council for
review. Projects that are of concern should be delayed. People are being taxed,
and there has to be some kind of accountability. There isn't any with this project.
Dawson stated they talked about having flood sub-zones for the coastal
areas. She questioned whether that concept would have worked in this instance,
before they did anything. Prieve stated not necessarily. This is more of an erosion
problem. There was a failing bulkhead. There was water lying in the road, which
needed to be protected. It wasn't a public road, it was a private road, but they
were concerned about the homeowners.
Brenner questioned the number of houses they were concerned about.
Prieve stated there were three houses.
Paula Cooper, Special Project Manager, stated that Bob Knutson is on the
project review subcommittee of the Flood Control Zone District Advisory
Committee. They do use guidelines for prioritization of projects. This project met
the guidelines quite well. The committee struggled a bit with this, which is why it
wanted to take the project before the Board of Supervisors. She apologized and
stated she is still learning the system.
Brenner stated it never came to the Board of Supervisors, and it really
needed to. Prieve stated they took it to the Finance Committee because of the
money involved. They've gotten a clear message, and would bring it to the Council
of the Whole.
Hoag stated she recalled when this came up in May. It was an aside
discussion. She didn't recall whether or not she attended the Finance Committee
that day. A number of the public contacted her when they heard that money was
going to something like this, because it was very clearly private and public monies
were expended to restore a private bulkhead to protect private residences and a
private road. The public didn't think that was appropriate. In terms of the
guidelines they referred to, they are for prioritization. They are not guidelines for
whether or not a project is appropriate, which is the first hurdle that has to be
crossed. There needs to be something else in there. Cooper stated she agreed
that there is an issue of loss of life versus loss of public infrastructure versus loss of
private property. They talked about using alternative criteria, but they would have
had to change the ordinance to do that.
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Brenner stated they don’t have to change criteria to know if something is an
appropriate use of flood money. If they already feel uncomfortable about a project,
it should not go on to the guidelines. Cooper stated there is nothing in the
ordinance that says, to be eligible, a project has to meet a certain appropriateness
guideline.
Brenner stated there is nothing in the ordinance that says everyone who
applies for something that meets the guidelines is going to get their project, either.
Prieve stated not everyone gets his or her project approved.
Brenner stated this would have been common sense. People had the ability
to do an LID.
Hoag stated something like this should never go forward unless there is a
sub-zone or other mechanism created for protection in that area. When they set up
the flood fee, they specified certain properties that pay more into the flood fund
because they receive more of a benefit. If they want to set up something along the
coastlines, then those people need to pay a higher tax. Cooper stated a lot of this
occurred before her time. She understood that the reason the sub-zones were put
together was because the old 70/30 program was difficult for property owners to
work under because the property owners would have to come up with 30 percent of
the cost, and often there would be one property owner who held out, which
compromised the integrity of the project. The reason for the sub-zones was to
create an assessment to be collected for the local sponsor match. These individual
property owners did provide the local sponsor match. The project was an 80/20
project. If they don't vary the contribution percentage from the program, the
project doesn't have to go in front of the Council.
Hoag stated that people along the river pay a higher flood fee every year, in
addition to a property owner match that they would have to pay for a project.
They pay substantially more than other people do. Their sub-zone pays the 20
percent match. Cooper stated the 20 percent comes from the increased flood fee
for people in those areas.
Bob Knutson, Flood Control Zone District Advisory Committee (FCZDAC),
stated he is on the Project Review Committee. The committee looked at the area of
the request. The reason they agreed to it was because County road was at
jeopardy. The County road is just down the road from the private road. The tide is
cutting into the and in line with the County road. The committee looked at that
situation and decided, based on the fact that a County project to do repairs would
be spendy, that this small project could save a lot of money in the future. The
Project Review Committee brings the situation to the FCZDAC. No one is very
comfortable because this was new territory they were stepping into. There was a
very healthy discussion. He felt that the residents are paying taxes and are entitled
to some of the fund someway, somehow. The FCZDAC asked for direction from the
County Council. That's where the FCZDAC stopped it. The entire committee was
uncomfortable with it, but the people who looked at the area all agreed that the
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odds were good for a heavy winter storm to get in behind the rock wall and eat the
County road. It would become a massive problem real quick.
Brenner stated she talked to a private engineer about that. The person she
talked to didn't agree that there was an imminent problem for the County road.
Knutson stated he was not an engineer, but for the last five years he'd looked at a
lot of projects, a lot of water, and a lot of stuff going down.
Brenner questioned who the professional engineer was who made the
decision that the County road was at risk. Knutson stated he didn't know that any
County road engineer made that determination. He was talking about the project
review committee members who went to look at the area.
Brenner stated she talked to an engineer who knows the area and said he
didn't see any danger. The engineer is not making any money, one way or the
other. Knutson stated they are not either.
McShane stated he was familiar with that area, and concurred with the
conclusion that the Project Committee made. They made the right call. This Public
Works Committee recently put out a letter regarding having a repair done on
private land to protect private property with the idea that, down the road, there
could be risk to a state highway. That was probably what the Project Committee
was thinking of and made sense in their minds. The committee brought it before
the County Council. It was in the County Council packet. People had an
opportunity to comment. He didn't like the tone of how this meeting has gone.
The County Council had the opportunity to say something then, and were asked to
say something, but chose not to. Now that it has come out afterwards, it is
inappropriate for them to have the kind of criticizing tone that this meeting has
had, when they had the opportunity to raise the issue at the time.
Brenner stated she wanted to see where it was in her Council packet. She
either missed the Finance Committee, but it wasn't in anything she did as a County
Councilmember.
McShane stated it was in the packet of information for the Finance
Committee. They would have had the chance then.
Brenner stated she wanted to see a copy of the information. She was sorry
that one of the committee members didn't like the tone, but she was concerned
about where they go from here. She already talked to Ms. Cooper about it. She
questioned whether they could work on other criteria. Cooper stated they could
work on modifying or refining these criteria to create more detail. They would work
through the Project Review Committee and the FCZDAC to bring that back to the
County Council.
Brenner questioned whether there was some way that the Council could
make a motion that projects such as this have a full Council discussion. Cooper
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stated she suggested that, after the FCZDAC goes through the prioritization, they
would share the prioritization list with the County Council.
Brenner questioned whether this was a high-priority project. Cooper stated
it was.
Dawson stated she supported using the flood monies for these coastal areas.
Her concern was about whether there was citizen participation in this. They need
to have coastal flood zone districts, so they participate the same as people along
the river when their homes and properties are in danger. She didn't have a
problem with this project as long as there was some kind of a match. It looks like
that is what occurred. She wanted to know whether the County can get the
residents formed into a LID to get this going. This is something that other areas
are going to want to get involved in. Cooper stated the new staff will help the
division get to setting up the coastal sub-zones.
Knutson stated there are still two forks on the river that don't have sub-
zones. It is a project that has to be done. He had one request from the
committee; they would love to have a councilmember at every one of their
meetings. They see a councilmember on rare occasions. Most of the committee
members would like to have a councilmember there. Then, this kind of a problem
wouldn't jump up and bite them. They would be aware of it from the start. One
person couldn’t speak for the entire body, but could be involved in the discussion.
Dawson stated they should think about that for the new year. Knutson
stated it would be greatly appreciated.
Cooper stated they have quarterly meetings, but she could call a special
meeting to deal with issues that crop up.
Brenner stated she had a real concern that there is no comprehensive view of
what they want and where they want to put their money. She was afraid that the
flood fund would be eaten away.
Knutson stated the FCZDAC has the same question.
Prieve stated that Councilmembers McShane and Hoag have attended the
meetings in the past.
Brenner stated that when questions like this come up, staff could bring
forward a list of concerns to the Council.
Cooper stated she is still trying to figure out how to get the right information
in front of the right people. She was still learning the process.
Brenner stated some of the councilmembers spend a lot of time with their
Council packets. It's very easy for something to slip by in a 500-page packet. This
is an important issue that needs to come to the full Council. It was a situation in
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which there were not good lines of communication in either direction. It's not a
matter of putting fault on someone. She was just concerned about what would
happen to the flood money if it was all used for pet projects.
Cooper stated she would try to schedule a discussion of the criteria during
the January and February meetings.
Brenner asked Ms. Cooper to schedule a discussion in a future Public Works
Committee about how to tighten up this process to make it work for everyone. It
could also be discussed during Committee of the Whole. If it is going to take a lot
of work, the Public Works Committee would be the place to do it. After they come
up with the ideas of what they want to change and how they want to change it, it
could go to the Committee of the Whole. It won't get done in one meeting.
Hoag stated she wanted to see separate criteria about whether a project is
eligible. They need separate eligibility criteria.
Brenner stated they definitely appreciate the Flood Advisory Committee. This
situation was just a shocker. Knutson stated the committee would greatly
appreciate a councilmember's attendance.
Brenner asked for a schedule of meetings. She would attend quarterly
meetings if they are not on a night in which she has other meetings scheduled.
4. PRESENTATION BY MIKE KAUFMAN REGARDING THE SUMAS ENERGY
2 PROJECT (AB2000-074A)
(Clerk’s Note: Councilmember McShane left the room.)
Brenner stated they need to talk to Dave Grant. She questioned whether Mr.
Kaufman wanted the County to take a stronger position on this. Kaufman asked
that the Council approve any efforts to oppose SE2. Try to intervene and reopen
the case.
Brenner stated they need to talk to their attorney because they were not
sure at what point this process is and if intervener status is still available. Kaufman
stated the record is closed. EFSEC is in deliberation. The ability to reopen this and
have them consider this information is a very unlikely prospect, but they need to
attempt it. Timing is an issue. He didn't know if they have enough time. There
are a lot of things to talk to.
Brenner stated that if she had had time, she would have talked to Dave
Grant earlier. This was brand new to her. She didn't have a clue about what the
options are or what they can do legally. Kaufman stated he understood. They
need to have a discussion to formulate the best plan to move this forward. It is
important information.
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Brenner stated that if there is any way they can do it, she was interested in
doing that.
Hoag suggested getting the information on the record for the Governor’s
consideration, if they can’t get it in for EFSEC's consideration.
ADJOURN 8
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The meeting adjourned at 3:03 p.m.
______________________________
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
ATTEST: WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
______________________________ ___________________________
Dana Brown-Davis, Council Clerk Barbara Brenner, Committee Chair