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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSpecial Committee of the Whole June 23, 20151 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL Special Committee of the Whole June 23, 2015 CALL TO ORDER Council Chair Carl Weimer called the meeting to order at 3:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington. ROLL CALL Present: Barbara Brenner, Ken Mann, Satpal Sidhu, Carl Weimer, Pete Kremen, Rud Browne and Barry Buchanan. Absent: None. COMMITTEE DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL 11 UPDATE FROM THE COMMUNITY COALITION FOR JUSTICE, A GROUP WORKING TO PREVENT AND REDUCE INCARCERATION TO HELP REDUCE THE SIZE AND EXPENSE OF THE PROPOSED NEW JAIL PROJECT (AB2015 -047M) Dave Finet, Opportunity Council Executive Director, stated there is no question that they need a new jail and that diversion alternatives to incarceration are cheaper in the long run than keeping people in jail. They are less disruptive to families and are more humane to people with behavioral health issues. Ultimately, they will curb recidivism. Whatcom County has a number of diversion alternatives in place, but they can and must do better. The new Task Force should investigate new diversion programs in the coming months. This is an important opportunity to change how the current criminal justice system impacts the lives of people in the community. People in poverty comprise a high percentage of the jail population. The current system has adverse consequences for many people already struggling to get by daily. People who cannot afford electronic monitoring are at risk of losing their jobs. Mounting fines, and having to go back to jail because they cannot afford to pay their fines, keeps people in a cycle of instability and poverty. When parents spend time in jail, it has a profound impact on the children. When children have adverse childhood experiences, it is more likely that they will end up in jail as juveniles or adults. The stressors of poverty tear families apart by feeding domestic violence, child abuse, and substance abuse. When poverty goes down, people thrive and crime goes down. The community has to work together to not criminalize homelessness or poverty. He supports crisis intervention training for police officers. Detaining people for nonviolent crimes or having them languish in jail pre -trial perpetuates the cycle of generational poverty. Figure out how to only jail those who are a true threat to society. Reduce the number of people waiting in jail pre -trail and how to reduce the impact of mounting debt from people in the system who are already just getting by. Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 1 1 The jail has become the de facto mental health facility. He supports the 2 development of an urgent care center in parallel with the new jail's development. He would 3 like funding to be appropriated for construction of an urgent care facility to back up 4 leadership's desire for the new urgent care facility. 5 6 Maximize jail alternatives to operate most efficiently and reduce the needed size of 7 the jail, which will extend the life of the new jail. Shift the paradigm to prioritize diversion 8 alternatives. They cannot afford to invest in the expensive cost of a new jail on an ongoing 9 basis. He encourages the County to make Whatcom County a true leader in fair, equitable, 10 and cost - effective justice for everyone in the community. They need both a new jail and a 11 robust diversion alternative program. Help families break the cycle of incarceration. 12 13 Amy Kahn referenced an email she sent to the Council (on file) and stated she 14 represents a community coalition. Invite all stakeholders to participate in the jail 15 development project. This is a nonpartisan issue. Before sending the expenditure to the 16 voters, they must look at what they can do to negate the need for incarceration. The jail is 17 a misallocation of services that will result in a less safe community. Open the conversation 18 to all parties. Get input from regional and national leaders, and get available data. She 19 referenced her email and described the different incarceration alternative programs. 20 21 Weimer asked if they are asking the Council to look into these programs before the 22 new Incarceration Task Force begins its work. Kahn stated the money isn't available to do 23 both a new jail and new diversion programs. Her big concern is the operating costs, 24 including the bond payments for the next 30 years. The existing cost of the proposed jail 25 project will prevent the diversion options from being developed. 26 27 2. RESOLUTION SUBMITTING TO THE QUALIFIED VOTERS OF WHATCOM 28 COUNTY A PROPOSITION AUTHORIZING A LOCAL SALES AND USE TAX OF 29 TWO- TENTHS OF ONE PERCENT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING FUNDS 30 FOR COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH FINANCING, DESIGNING, ACQUIRING, 31 CONSTRUCTING, EQUIPPING, OPERATING, MAINTAINING, REMODELING, 32 REPAIRING, RE- EQUIPPING, AND IMPROVEMENT OF JAIL FACILITIES AND 33 OTHER PUBLIC SAFETY PURPOSES (AB2015 -047H) 34 35 Jack Louws, County Executive, submitted and read from a memo to the Council (on 36 file). 37 38 Weimer asked if the administration has considered changing the interlocal agreement 39 to reflect concerns about diversion programs. He also asked about the City's discussion of 40 whether 521 beds is the right size. Louws stated the City of Bellingham is not going to 41 contest the size or location of the facility. At this time, it's a cost allocation issue. There is 42 a variety of reasons why the Bellingham City Council did not approve the jail facility use 43 agreement. 44 45 He submitted and read from a presentation (on file) describing the City /County sales 46 tax distributions. Over the next 32 years, the County will collect $550 million. The financial 47 assumptions are based on a two and a half percent increase. Of that, $356 million will 48 come from the new two - tenths of one percent sales tax, and $194 million from the existing 49 one -tenth of one percent sales tax. The County proposes to use the entire $194 million for 50 its operation of the jail. The $356 million would be divided proportionally among the Cities 51 and County. The total revenue split is 75.1 percent to the County and 24.9 percent to the 52 Cities. The County is responsible for more than 80 percent of the jail operation. The sales 53 tax distribution is fairly close. The $83 million going to the Cities is new money. The Cities Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 2 1 have a choice of backfilling their existing per diem costs. The City of Bellingham will receive 2 an average of $1.7 million of new money per year to use at its discretion. The County will 3 have an additional $77 million new dollars, all of which will go back to jail operations. That 4 will release existing operational funds for other items, including the jail diversion task force. 5 He described the proposal from the City of Bellingham, as described in the memo from 6 Mayor Linville to the Bellingham City Council dated June 22, 2015. The County will not be 7 able to build a jail with 521 beds if the City funding proposal is approved. 8 9 Weimer asked if they can build a smaller jail. Louws stated there were 261 felons 10 and 111 misdemeanants in the jail. Building a jail with 400 beds to serve the County's 11 needs for the life of the bond over the next 30 years, while giving everyone equal access, is 12 not feasible. They will soon run out of space. Spokane County has recently been successful 13 at reducing their jail population. However, they have 2.47 jail beds per 1,000 people. 14 Whatcom County has 1.44 beds per 1,000 people currently. To be in the same position as 15 Spokane County, Whatcom County would have to build a jail that has 517 beds. The math 16 doesn't support a jail with only 421 beds. He referenced the needs assessment presented 17 to the Council last year. Diversion options decrease the number of jail bed days, but the 18 State legislature keeps changing sentencing laws that give the County more responsibility. 19 He would rather have a bigger jail that isn't fully utilized than a jail that's too small. 20 21 Brenner asked what they will do if they don't need all the beds and if the space can 22 be used for other services. Louws stated no space they will build inside the secure facility 23 will be used for any income - producing endeavor. A jail that has more space for prisoners 24 with additional space for programming will be a more humane environment and allow the 25 County to expand programming. 26 27 Brenner stated they can expand programming. She supports the presentation from 28 Mr. Finet and Ms. Kahn. There will be plenty of uses for available space. Diversion options 29 are a good thing to do, but they won't lower the jail population. If they don't use all the bed 30 space, use some for social services. 31 32 Browne stated the number of 521 is designed to operate at about 80 percent 33 capacity, whereas the current facility is at well over 100 percent capacity. The impact of 34 running above 100 percent capacity is the elimination of any programs, such as Alcoholics 35 Anonymous (AA), Narcotics Anonymous (NA), or religious counseling. Louws stated the 36 current facility was never designed for providing alternatives to corrections. To provide the 37 best opportunity for inmates to rejoin society, the County needs room to provide those 38 programs and medical facilities. The 521 beds at 80 percent capacity allows them to put 39 inmates in an appropriate type of bed. Now, they put eight people in one cell. It doesn't 40 work. 41 42 Browne asked if a 521 -bed facility is really for the current jail population, but more in 43 line with best practices. Louws stated 521 beds at 80 percent, which is the 44 recommendation of the National Institute of Corrections Standards, is 417 beds. The 45 County currently has an average population of 404 beds. They are now building a facility 46 that is 13 beds bigger than what they need. 47 48 Buchanan asked the financial implication if they reduced the jail size by about 100 49 beds. Louws stated the cost of 100 beds is about $20 million. They will go to one pod 50 instead of two. Prisoner classification will be divided by seven ways, not 12 ways, which 51 would reduce design flexibility. They will have to proportionately reduce the sizes of the 52 kitchen, medical facility, intake area, classrooms, storage, and other areas to fit within 53 those dollars. Skagit County is building a 400 -bed facility for about $65 million. If the City Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 3 1 of Bellingham chooses to go in a different direction and the County decides on a 400 -bed 2 facility, the County could do that for about $75 million. Under the 60 -40 sales tax split, 3 they could make that happen. 4 5 Mann stated diversion options will save money. People will not go to jail, and they 6 won't lose their Medicaid coverage, which will be a huge cost savings for medical care. 7 Spokane County is on a trajectory of reducing their incarcerated population because they 8 are implementing programs like the ones they heard about at this meeting. Their jail bed 9 usage is around 900 beds, which is quite a bit lower than the number of beds their jail has. 10 This comes down to a fundamental belief about whether diversion will work to reduce the 11 incarcerated population. He believes it will save the County money. He's advocated for 12 those programs and tried to evaluate the criminal justice system as a whole. Diversion will 13 be more effective at treating people in the jail. Holding people in jail pre -trial is the most 14 expensive way to deal with folks. He supports building a 400 -bed jail to save $20 million, 15 and they will be able to build this triage crisis facility, fund the task force, and fund new 16 programs. 17 18 Sidhu stated the question is whether to use the .2 percent sales tax. He asked why 19 they don't meet the condition of building a jail first. The first priority should be that the 20 Council needs $210 million to for a new jail over 30 years, rather than focusing on the 21 funding formula. Louws stated they must build a facility to new standards that require more 22 square footage. They also need revenue to absorb the additional operating cost. The jail 23 use agreement provides money to pay for the facility and the additional cost of operations. 24 The bonding companies are requiring that the County have the money to pay for the jail and 25 ensure that the County has the financial capacity to operate the new jail. 26 27 Sidhu stated the Cities are using this as a way to augment their budgets for the 28 future. Also, reducing the number of beds by ten percent and the cost per bed by ten 29 percent, the total capital cost drops from $97 million to $78 million. 30 31 Kremen stated the presentations today were well thought out. A concern about the 32 City of Bellingham proposal is the diminishing ability to generate revenue and increasing 33 costs for mandated services. Under the Growth Management Act, there was a big shift for 34 sales taxes. The County used to receive one percent of everything sold in unincorporated 35 areas. Because of growth management and other items, the retail establishments have 36 been absorbed by the cities, which diminished the amount the County received in sales tax 37 from one percent to one -tenth of one percent. The Cities aren't as financially strapped as 38 the County. The County is charged to provide a safe and humane jail for the community. 39 It's sad that the desire to create more revenue for things other than the jail is driving the 40 decision of the City. The County needs to provide the jail. He agrees with option one, the 41 administration's recommendation. Option two doesn't work. Louws stated they all have 42 financial challenges, and they should work together. They are at a critical point in time. 43 They don't have another year to work on this. 44 45 Brenner stated a consequence of retail moving into the cities was that there was 46 supposed to be a cost - sharing factor, but that didn't happen. Also, they have heard several 47 things about the Spokane jail, but the situation in Spokane seems to be getting worse, even 48 though they are doing a lot of these programs. Last, Medicaid is so bad that people can't 49 get services, and it will get worse. Medicaid keeps reducing its reimbursements and 50 demanding that the local jurisdictions provide more. 51 52 Louws stated he spoke to officials in Spokane County, who indicated that they are 53 experiencing a decline in population, but their facility is very deteriorated. They are working Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 4 1 on diversion options, too. He described the three options for the jail use agreement 2 described in his memo. Of the 521 beds in the new facility, 333 would be for Whatcom 3 County's use and 104 would be for the City of Bellingham. There would be 26 bed spaces 4 for the small cities and 57 beds for the Tribes and others. 5 6 Mann stated the original jail use facility agreement said the County would build a 7 facility with 521 beds. The current proposed agreement says the County would build a 8 facility with up to 521 beds. He asked if that wording change is intentional. Louws stated it 9 is intentional. If only six of the seven Cities sign the agreement, the County would build a 10 jail appropriately sized to six of the seven cities. If Bellingham doesn't sign the agreement, 11 they would get their 40 percent allocation of the .2 percent sales tax, but they wouldn't be 12 entitled to first access to the jail on an ongoing basis. If the City of Bellingham does sign 13 the agreement, the County would build a jail that has up to 521 beds. 14 15 Mann asked if they can build a 400 -bed jail under option one. Louws stated he 16 doesn't know if he or any of the small city mayors would sign that agreement, based on 17 current populations. The agreement does not give the Council the opportunity, after the 18 ballot measure has passed, to reduce the size of the jail by 30 percent. 19 20 Browne stated that if this goes on the ballot, they are asking the voters for a facility 21 that is up to 521 beds. Until the County signs the final design and construction contracts 22 and the final use agreements with the Cities, the actual size of the jail is in flux. Louws 23 stated it is in flux, within reasonable parameters. 24 25 Browne stated there are many concerns from citizens that alternatives are available 26 that would allow the County to reduce the size of the jail. He asked if nothing stops the 27 County from building a smaller facility from the time this goes on the ballot to the time that 28 the County signs the final contracts for construction, if everyone agrees. Louws stated it 29 may be correct hypothetically, but the message to the voters is that the County doesn't 30 know what size it wants to build. 31 32 Browne stated the message he is trying to communicate that, if the Council approves 33 putting this on the ballot, which it should, the Council is still willing to listen to citizens and 34 work with the Cities, Sheriff, Executive, and others to make sure the jail is the right size. 35 The decision to put it on the ballot is not a final decision on the size or design. Put this on 36 the ballot because they have a short timeframe. If they don't get this on the ballot, the 37 whole process is pushed back at least a year. That's not wise. Putting it on the ballot does 38 not mean he will stop listening to people who talk about what the right size and design will 39 be. That doesn't mean he disagrees with the need for a 521 -bed jail. It just means he will 40 continue to listen right up to the point the Council must agree to the construction contracts. 41 42 Louws stated that if the Council decides the message is to get it on the ballot without 43 providing clarity on what the County will do, then he is not able to write a revised jail facility 44 use agreement with enough detail for the Cities to agree to. The Council will have to decide 45 sooner or later on the work they've done the past year., in order for them to create a jail use 46 facility agreement. It will be difficult for some voters to support a ballot measure that is not 47 clearly defined by the County Council soon. The jail facility use agreement will come back 48 to the Council for decision. If the Council doesn't approve it, the message to the voters is 49 that the County wants the money, but the County doesn't know what to do with it. At that 50 point, they will be in big trouble. Within reason, there is flexibility. Design consideration 51 will adjust the number of beds within a range. He needs an agreement with the small cities 52 based on a jail size. The Cities want a reasonable expectation there will be room for them 53 for many years. Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 5 1 2 Weimer asked if the voters will know what size the jail will be. He asked if the voters 3 will know that the County will build a 421 -bed jail not to serve Bellingham if Bellingham 4 chooses to not sign the agreement. Louws stated the voters will know that. The facilities 5 use agreement will be written with that information. 6 7 Sidhu stated that if they cut the number of beds by ten percent, they can achieve a 8 ten percent savings. If they do value engineering, they can easily save ten percent in 9 construction costs. The estimate they've given is only 60 percent complete. That would 10 address concerns about the cost of the jail, the number of beds, and the size of the jail. It 11 would send a message to the City of Bellingham. It may allow them more of the revenue. 12 If the project cost ends up being less, they should pay off the bond sooner. 13 14 Louws continued to describe option two. He would like specific direction from the 15 Council. 16 17 Weimer asked if option two is the option to choose if they want to split the difference 18 with the City on some of those tax things. Louws stated the County and City of Bellingham 19 are so far apart that he doesn't know what the starting place is for negotiation. He 20 conceded about $25 million to the Cities over the life of the tax. The average cost over the 21 next 32 years will require a $3.2 million addition to the general fund. The question is how 22 much the Council wants to displace the general fund, when the original proposal gives the 23 City of Bellingham $800,000 of new revenue in the first year. Over the life of the taxes, 24 they will receive about $1.7 million of new revenue per year. If the Council wants to change 25 the split, they could. 26 27 Kremen stated that if the Council chooses option two, they have to start negotiations 28 all over to work out an agreement with all the small cities. The proposal from the City of 29 Bellingham is almost unworkable given the tight timeframe to get something on the ballot 30 that has any chance of receiving voter approval. He's interested in Councilmember Sidhu's 31 proposal to reduce costs a bit per bed and not be so fixated on a jail size. Find some way to 32 lessen the price tag. He's concerned about the cost being prohibitive to the voters. He 33 agrees that they need to focus on diversion and incarceration alternatives. That doesn't 34 negate the fact that they need a new jail. Louws stated he agrees that at the 60 percent 35 design stage, they are not in a position to lock in a final cost. It would be irresponsible of 36 his administration to allow a project to move forward without continued work on value 37 engineering and the scope of the whole project. If there are cost overruns, Whatcom 38 County has the risk to pay for them. The County is responsible to continue to pay the 39 increased operating cost based on use. The Cities will get more sales tax revenue in 40 relation to what the County will receive. The County carries the risk. The administration is 41 asking for about $1.75 million from the Cities, regardless of the cost of the facility. He will 42 make sure they spend money wisely. The two -pod design does lock them in to an 43 approximate bed size. The cost savings will come from the size of the medical facility, 44 intake facility, kitchen and appliances, storage, and other things. 45 46 Brenner stated she is most concerned with option two because it will affect how 47 robust the diversion options will be. Don't do anything that might reduce their options. 48 She's concerned about changing the amount everyone contributes. Part of the reason why 49 the County can do diversion options is because it will take money from the general fund and 50 other places. This tax is only for the jail. 51 52 Browne stated the 521 number is more right than wrong. The point of his comments 53 is simply that many people feel they didn't have the information about jail diversion, which Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 6 I should be incorporated in the plan. He likes the current proposed size of the jail and in the 2 context of diversion and recidivism. For example, 18 year olds shouldn't be in the same 3 area has a hardened adult. That encourages the wrong sort of behavior. Make room for 4 opportunities that allow inmates to examine their lives with the assistance of others. A 5 larger facility gives the Sheriff's Office the flexibility to make those things happen. Tonight 6 the Council votes on the funding for the jail diversion task force. The Council should 7 immediately form the committee, get the people involved, get some early responses back, 8 and provide an opportunity for everyone to be involved. It's another opportunity for 9 everyone to take a second look at whether there is anything they've missed and can do at 10 this point. That opportunity still exists for the community. A vote to put this on the ballot 11 does not eliminate that opportunity. 12 13 Louws described option three. This project requires community support and 14 education and outreach. He doesn't advocate for option three. The option of doing nothing 15 or of the voters not voting for the ballot proposition is not good. The result will be a delay 16 of a year or more. They are in a hyper - inflated time for construction costs, which will 17 continue to rise. The right decision is to get this on the ballot and work with the community 18 to provide a county correctional facility. He asks the Council to identify to the voters exactly 19 what they're asking for, which is two - tenths of a percent of sales tax, and to identify they 20 are going to build a building of some specific size. He is often asked why this wasn't done 21 when they voted for the first sales tax in 2005. People in the community distrust the 22 Executive and the Council to do what they say they will do. He wants to provide a specific 23 expectation on what the County is going to do. If the County can't tell the public that they 24 want to build a facility of a specific size, they will create doubt by the voters. 25 26 Weimer stated the Executive has framed three options, but there are lots of other 27 options. Louws stated there are many other options. 28 29 Weimer stated one option is the idea of getting a small group of City Council 30 Members and County Council Members together to find out where everyone is at. They 31 keep hearing that the average jail population is 404, they need an 80 percent factor, and 32 they need 17 beds in the medical unit, which totals 521 beds. However, he's tracked the 33 jail population since the first of the year. This year, the average jail population is 346. 34 With the 80 percent safety factor, the necessary jail size is 416 beds. That saves $20 35 million, and they can split the difference to provide an investment in prevention programs. 36 Build one pod now, and build the second pod in the future. 37 38 Brenner stated Councilmember Buchanan asked to do that, but the City Council 39 wasn't interested. 40 41 Weimer stated they weren't interested in a meeting with all 14 City and County 42 council members. The Mayor recommended the Executive, Mayor, and one or two council 43 members from each council. He's trying to find a way to find out what the City Council 44 really thinks, which may be different from what they've heard from the Mayor. 45 46 Brenner asked why they didn't want to meet. The County Council publicly said it 47 wanted to meet with the City Council, but the City Council just said no. There comes a time 48 when they have to ask for what they're really trying to do. She voted for a joint meeting, 49 but they weren't interested and didn't send back a suggestion. 50 51 Sidhu stated they have invested so much time and money. That's how negotiations 52 happen. They can talk again and again. If something like this can work, he doesn't object. 53 There is nothing wrong with coming up with a compromise. Put it to the people to decide. Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 7 I If they delay two years, there's no guarantee. Be realistic. Don't be too rigid about the size 2 of the jail. Make every effort to get to an agreement in the next two weeks. 3 4 Weimer stated there are two ways to get an agreement with the City. The County 5 can get in a room with the City and have a discussion to make sure everyone is on the same 6 page, or the County can pass option one and forward it to the City for them to decide. 7 8 Sidhu stated that before sending the City something, a couple of people from each 9 council, the Mayor, and the Executive can get together to propose a resolution, which can 10 go to the respective councils. 11 12 Louws stated he's provided his recommendation. He's worked on this since last 13 September. He's asked the City to provide specific, detailed reasons why they couldn't 14 agree to the agreement. He took those reasons, worked with the Mayor, and incorporated 15 responses to the City. If the councils would like to work together to come to an 16 understanding, they can come back to him and give him specific changes to the document. 17 However, they are running out of time. He's done the best he can at this time. He won't be 18 in a position to try to negotiate something when there isn't clear information on what's 19 being negotiated. 20 21 Browne stated he supports option one. 22 23 Buchanan stated he supports option two, to come to a better understanding and 24 agreement with the City. 25 26 Mann stated he supports having intense negotiation over the next couple of weeks. 27 He doesn't support option one. The jail is too big, too expensive, and doesn't work. 28 29 Brenner stated she supports option one. 30 31 Kremen stated he supports option one. 32 33 Sidhu stated he supports parts of options one and two, which can onlv be settled by 34 some manner of negotiation. 35 36 Dan Hamill, Bellingham City Council, stated he recommends that they have a joint 37 meeting with the Executive, Mayor, and a couple of City Council and County 38 Councilmembers so they can all understand both positions. 39 40 Dave McEachran, Prosecuting Attorney, stated he supports option one, which gives 41 everyone the opportunity to look at what they need for years to come. The current jail, 42 when built, was ill- conceived. The State provided only enough money for the current size, 43 which they all knew wouldn't be enough. It's since failed. For now, option one is the way to 44 go. The Executive will be able to get this done in a very good manner, with the Council's 45 direction. 46 47 Browne stated option one doesn't preclude any further discussion from the other 48 cities. By its nature, option one will require further discussion. Option one is the clear path 49 to move forward. 50 51 Weimer stated the Council will discuss this again at the evening meeting. 52 53 Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 OTHER BUSINESS There was no other business. ADJOURN The meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m. The CpgpUll 16pproved these minutes on October 27, 2015. ATTEST'- \'OPIT� -o'_ `� WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL . i',t' }� •, WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON 13`6 ra Brbui', ; a yJ8, Co ciI Clerk Carl Weimer, Council Chair Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription Special Committee of the Whole, 6/23/2015, Page 9