HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources May 18 19991
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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Natural Resources Committee
May 18, 1999
The meeting was called to order at 10:00 a.m. by Committee Chair Connie Hoag in the
Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
Also Present: Absent:
Kathy Sutter None
Tom Brown
(Clerk's Notes: Portions of the audiotape are inaudible and transcribed from the Clerk's
notes.)
COMMITTEE DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL
1. RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A WHATCOM COUNTY MARINE RESOURCE
COMMITTEE AS PROVIDED FOR UNDER THE NORTHWEST STRAITS
COMMISSION (AB99 -158A)
Tom Cowen, Northwest Straits Commission, stated that he was available for questions.
Hoag questioned the change from "goals" to "mission" on page two, line eight.
Sutter explained that goals are an end product one would produce. The guiding
principles were more of a mission statement.
Hoag explained that she saw them more as goals. She spent ten years working in the
corporate sector, where they wasted so much time coming up with mission statements that she
has become sensitive to the word "mission."
Sutter explained that she did not like the goals used with these particular items. When
she thinks of goals, she thinks of things that are specific and measurable through time. They
have a specific level to be reached.
Brown stated that he would vote for the word "mission."
Hoag stated that the language would be "mission."
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 1
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Brown addressed the use of the word "essential" on line one of page two. It is a very
major item. It is more than "essential."
Hoag and Sutter stated that they prefer to leave the word "essential."
Hoag questioned whether the Marine Resources Committee will be required to be
involved in the ESHB 2514 and HB 2496 processes.
Sutter stated that they are not. It just requires them to establish a working rank so that
information is shared and no one is duplicating efforts.
Hoag suggested a language change in line 12, page two, "...establish a 1i work in
cooperation with... "so that they understand that all of these processes have to work together.
Sutter stated that they could have a person that is a liaison with the other efforts.
Brown suggested that they include language regarding establishing communication with
the other efforts.
Hoag stated that she did not want to bog down the committee. They deal mostly with
what is in the ocean. ESHB 2514 and HB 2496 does not address that very much. Those are
salmon projects. She did not want to put that requirement on them. She would rather ensure
they are communicating effectively.
Sutter stated that she liked the idea of a link because it binds everyone together.
Hoag moved to change wording to "...establish a 1i work cooperatively with..."
Brown stated that he preferred the language "...establish a link..."
(Clerks Note: Because of lack of support for the motion, no vote was taken)
Hoag stated that she wanted to discuss the number of members to be listed on Exhibit A.
Also, she preferred that wording about planning staff, port or commercial interests, and sport
fishers should be left in.
Sutter explained that including County staff and staff from the cities makes it too
governmental. Also, other interests besides sport fishers should be included.
Hoag stated that the County is trying to copy what was done in San Juan County, which
works well. She questioned how big their committee is.
Cowen stated that their committee size has fluctuated. He was uncertain of the exact
amount, but believed that there must be a minimum of nine members. They usually have eleven
to thirteen. Most of the counties are looking at eleven to thirteen.
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 2
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Hoag stated that she preferred to include the language specifying the types of groups
whose interests would be represented.
Sutter wanted to remove the language regarding County and cities' planning staff.
Hoag stated that various planning staffs are included in the goals.
Sutter stated that there is nothing that prevents the committee from accomplishing those
goals. It doesn't preclude the planning staff. When people start putting that language in there,
people will focus on it.
Hoag stated that they should focus on including people who are most able to accomplish
the goals.
Sutter questioned who would make the appointments. It should be the administration.
Cowen stated that the County Commissioners in other counties with legislative authority
are making the appointments directly. In Snohomish County, the County Executive is making
the appointments with the concurrence of the Council.
Sutter stated that is what would happen in Whatcom County.
The committee concurred.
Hoag stated that she would like to see the wording regarding the representation of
interests remain in the resolution. It guides the administration on the types of representation that
they are looking for.
Sutter stated that she would then like add other interests to the list. She recommended
business and industry. Cherry Point, for instance, has a very big interest in marine resources.
The timber industry also has an interest.
Hoag stated that those are secondary impacts. If marine life is low, then it affects timber,
construction, and farmers. The people that have a direct economic interest are those that make
their living on those fish.
Brown stated that the task which states, "work and prevent harm from upland activities
through local and state ordinances" means that everyone in the County has an interest.
Hoag stated that she is not disputing that everyone has an interest. However, there is a
secondary impact and a primary impact. They are trying to accomplish getting the people
together who have to change what they are doing. One of the reasons it worked in San Juan
County is because the fishermen got together. They volunteered to change their actions to
accomplish their goals. It would not work on a voluntary basis if other people are telling them
that they have to change their actions.
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 3
I Brown stated that San Juan County does not have some of the competing interests that
2 Whatcom County has. Here, there will be a group whose only focus is on salt water. They will
3 be telling the inland interests what they can and can't do.
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5 Hoag asked Cowen about whether these interests are required to be represented on the
6 committee. Cowen explained that the goal is to be as flexible as possible. The report, which is
7 the document that they are guided by, calls for these various interests to be represented. That is
8 what they prefer. If it turned out that did not work for Whatcom County, however, they will not
9 prohibit Whatcom County from becoming a part of the process.
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11 Sutter questioned whether the report specified participation of planning departments and
12 other interests. Cowen stated that it did. This report was written before any counties other than
13 San Juan began forming committees. The report was designed to provide guidance and help, and
14 was not intended to be a prescription. Also, Clallam County chose to make the county and city
15 planning staffs ex officio members to ensure that there was a broad citizen representation. An ex
16 officio member is invited to the table to take part in the discussions, but are non - voting members.
17 They specified that there would be a planning representative from each shoreline city and the
18 county.
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20 Hoag stated that she would like to see something like that.
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22 The committee concurred.
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24 Hoag suggested 13 members: 1 possessing relevant scientific expertise; 3 from local
25 governments; 4 representing an economic interest, such as the Port or commercial fishing; 1
26 representing a recreational interest; 2 representing conservation and environmental interests, and;
27 2 knowledgeable citizens.
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29 Sutter suggested adding more members with scientific expertise and making the three
30 local government members ex officio.
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32 Hoag stated that it is important that the government representatives be voting members.
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34 Brown felt strongly that one of the government representative should be a County
35 Council member. Planning staff could be ex officio members.
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37 Dawson stated that the tribes have not been included.
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39 Hoag stated that they have. She questioned whether the tribes are included in the 13
40 membership. Cowen stated that they are included in the 13.
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42 Hoag stated that she originally wanted to include the Port of Bellingham and two
43 commercial fishers. They are the ones that will be impacted the most and will know the impacts
44 of the various decisions. The more that they are represented, the better off the committee will be.
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46 Brown stated that the fiscal impact of the recreational interests is significant.
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 4
2 Hoag stated that a person who is fishing to make a living should have more say on what
3 decisions are made than a person who is a sport fisher does. Four economic interests out of the
4 13 seats does not weight the membership too heavily. The other voices should be represented.
5 One member can adequately represent the recreational interests.
6
7 Sutter stated that there are more recreational interests besides fishing.
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9 Cowen stated that the other Marine Resources Committees (MRC) hat have formed
10 limited themselves to 13 members, however Whatcom County is not limited to that number. It is
11 a requirement in the Northwest Straits Commission. The other MRCs are limiting themselves to
12 13, but there is no requirement to do that.
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14 Brown stated that a group that is too large becomes unwieldy.
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16 Hoag suggested that there be 15 members assigned, plus two from the tribes. If it
17 becomes too unwieldy, there can be ex officio members, such as the cities and County planning
18 staffs. She moved to include the following members: 2 possessing relevant scientific expertise; 3
19 elected officials from local governments, one each from the County, City of Blaine, and City of
20 Bellingham; 4 representing an economic interest, such as the Port or commercial fishing; 2
21 representing a recreational interest; 2 representing conservation and environmental interests, and;
22 2 knowledgeable citizens.
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24 Sutter stated that she preferred there be 3 members representing an economic interest and
25 3 members representing conservation and environmental interests.
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27 Brown stated that he preferred the 4 representing economic interests and 2 representing
28 conservation and environmental interests.
WE
30 The committee concurred.
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32 Hoag questioned what the San Juan County structure was, regarding commercial and
33 recreational interests. Cowen stated that their membership has changed over time. They do
34 include recreational, commercial, conservation, and scientific interests.
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36 Hoag stated that she liked Sutter's suggestion to have 3 members representing an
37 economic interest and 3 members representing conservation and environmental interests. She
38 questioned whether there is a way to include other economic interests, such as designate one
39 position to represent inland interests.
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41 Brown stated that historically agriculture and timber interests have not been together.
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43 Sutter stated that they only need to specify how many seats will represent certain
44 interests.
45
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 5
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The committee concurred, with Brown opposed, to recommend that there be 3 economic
representative and 3 conservation interests.
Brown stated that he preferred to leave it at 4/2. Generally, the two knowledgeable
citizens will be representing environmental interests.
Hoag stated that the committee will recommend 3/3, and bring it before the Council.
(Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side A)
Sutter suggested adding "...with an economic interest (such as the Port, commercial
fishing, and business and industry).
The committee concurred.
Hoag questioned how much they have to define recreational interests. She suggested,
"...(such as, but not limited to, sport fishers).
Brown agreed.
The committee concurred.
Hoag suggested adding "...with an economic interest (such as, but not limited to, the
Port..."
Hoag asked if there will be ex official members. She suggested the Planning staffs from
the County and cities with marine shorelines.
Sutter stated that this is one place that they don't need to be limiting. She suggested that
they not limit ex officio members to only cities with marine shorelines.
Jeff Monsen, Public Works Director, explained that it is understood ex officio interests
are there to provide a resource. In addition, most elected officials would bring a staff person to
come with them.
Hoag questioned whether they are requiring all city Planning staffs to show up if the
resolution doesn't specify only those with marine shorelines. Monsen stated that not every city
has a Planning staff.
Michael Knapp, Planning and Development Services Director, suggested it not be limited
to just planning staff. Public Works staff should probably also be participating. They may not
need every city to be represented. Those entities with elected officials as voting members should
have Planning staff participating in the process.
Sutter suggested adding ex officio members from Planning and /or Public Works staff
from the County and cities. This does not preclude the committee from adding other ex officio
members as necessary.
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 6
2 Brown stated that line one of the Purpose section of Exhibit A leaves out the interest of
3 the human factor, such as the inland people and the people on shore. He suggested, "Guided by
4 sound science, the needs of the Northwest Straits marine ecosystem, and the citizens of Whatcom
5 County."
6
7 Sutter stated that the committee is being established to protect and enhance the local
8 marine environment, and contribute to the protection of the marine environment of the Northwest
9 Straits.
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11 Brown stated that if they get specific on one purpose only, and forget about the overall
12 picture, then the purpose will get lost. The current language infers that the only thing that counts
13 is science and the ecosystem, and the people don't count in the Purpose.
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15 Sutter stated that this body is not a regulatory body. They only make recommendations
16 on the needs of the Northwest Straits marine ecosystem. The human factor comes in when the
17 local authorities have to make decisions on the committee's recommendation. This committee is
18 supposed to only consider the marine environment. The Council is not charging the committee
19 to look out for the people of Whatcom County. They are being charged with making
20 recommendations regarding the marine ecosystem environment.
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22 Hoag suggested this be brought up to the full Council.
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24 Hoag stated that they are trying to balance that view with also protecting the people
25 involved in that environment. They are not trying to say that the people's interest should be
26 chosen at the expense of the environment, however she agreed that the current language focuses
27 strictly on the needs of the ecosystem, regardless of its impact.
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29 Sutter stated that she would like to see the recommendations be based on science. That is
30 all this resolution says. There are other places where the human element will be factored in.
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32 Hoag questioned the effect of adding the proposed language to paragraph two, Exhibit B.
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34 Sutter stated that the prior language regarding candidate sites and inclusion was unclear.
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36 Hoag questioned what a marine protected area was. Cowen responded that it can take on
37 different forms. The one established in San Juan County is a bottom fish recovery zone. The
38 actual language out of the report is what is included. Without being more specific about what the
39 candidate sites are would leave the reader confused.
1,
41 Hoag questioned whether a marine protected area is similar to a sanctuary requiring
42 regulation. Cowen stated that this Marine Resource Committee would have the ability to
43 recommend that the Department of Fish and Wildlife establish a regulated sanctuary. They
44 could not enact a regulatory marine protected area. Other counties are looking to having a
45 voluntary marine protected area that is not regulated by the Department of Fish and Wildlife.
46
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 7
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Hoag stated that language sounds like a regulatory process. Cowen stated that it is not
necessarily a regulatory process. The appropriate level determines whether it be voluntary or
regulatory.
Hoag suggested adding in exhibit B, the second paragraph, more of an explanation. After
"inclusion," she suggested adding "regulatory or voluntary."
Sutter stated that there will be an education process for the committee and those kinds of
things will be explained.
Hoag stated that she wanted in clearly specified that voluntary efforts are expected.
Brown stated that he would like to see the language left as it is.
Hoag stated that she will bring this forward tonight.
Hoag requested, in paragraph six, clarification of the language. Cowen explained that
this mission is not just to increase the brood stock, but to also increase average fish size, the
number of prey species, and protect the near -shore habitat for the forage fish. Everything after
the word "rockfish" are the benchmarks they are looking for in bottom fish recovery.
Hoag would like to see the wording to be in parenthesis. "Contribute to measurable
increases in bottom fish recovery, such as rockfish, (including numbers of fish of brood stock
size and age, average fish size, and abundance of prey species) as well as sufficient amounts of
quality of protected habitat.
Sutter stated that they may be better served to deal with salmon, not just rock fish.
Whatcom County's focus is different than San Juan County. Cowen stated that this resolution
was designed to lay out a number of goals. The way this is going to work for the seven counties
is to have flexibility. It was important in their report to lay out goals. They are going to focus on
what is important in each area. There are several counties in which the bottom fish recovery is
not an issue.
Sutter questioned whether bottom fish was an issue in Whatcom County.
Brown stated that the next item could address salmon.
Sutter stated that she would like change paragraph six, "...increases in better fish
salmon recovery."
Hoag stated that she wanted herring included.
Sutter stated that herring is a prey species for salmon. That language is already included.
The committee concurred.
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 8
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Hoag questioned whether they want to be very specific about salmon. They are also
looking at a bull trout listing. She suggested "...increases in salme fish recovery, such as
salmon,... "
Brown stated that there is a disappearing bottom fish population.
Cowen suggested a separate bullet item for salmon recovery instead of substituting it for
bottom fish. If they begin substituting language, then they will get into issues beyond their
control regarding salmon production. Brood stock size and age are not issues that the committee
can influence, in terms of salmon.
The committee concurred with the suggestion.
Sutter stated that they need to be cognizant of the indicators of a healthy salmon stock.
Those listed are measurable increases.
Hoag suggested using the same language, and listing the salmon bullet first. Below that,
they can leave the bottom fish recovery language.
The committee concurred.
Brown was concerned about quarterly reports taking a lot of staff time and suggested
changing the frequency of the reports to semi - annual. Cowen stated that they will not object to
semi - annual reports. However, one of the focuses is measurable benchmarks. For the Northwest
Straits Commission to be accountable on a regular basis is to make sure that there is good
accountability from the MRCS.
Brown questioned who is to pay for the staff. Cowen stated that, upon approval of the
resolution, there is a $10,000 start-up grant. Other monies can be made available on a project
basis. The Whatcom County MRC would propose a project to the Northwest Straits
Commission. If it would contribute to meeting the benchmarks, then they would try to provide
funding.
Hoag questioned whether it makes a difference to do quarterly or semi - annual reports
when obtaining funding. Cowen stated that it does not.
Hoag questioned how often the Northwest Straits Commission meets. Cowen stated that
it hasn't been officially formed yet, but the "kitchen" commission meets monthly. There is an
expectation that the Northwest Straits Commission, once formed, will meet monthly or quarterly.
Brown suggested specifying that there would be a report, "at least semi - annually."
The committee concurred
Sutter moved to recommend to full Council, as amended.
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 9
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Motion carried unanimously.
ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 11:35 a.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
ATTEST:
Dana Brown- Davis, Council Clerk
WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
Connie Hoag, Committee Chair
Natural Resources Committee, 5/18/99, Page 10