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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Committee Of The Whole
June 1, 1999
The meeting was called to order at 6:15 p.m. by Council Chair Marlene
Dawson in the Council Committee Room, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham,
Washington.
Also Present: Absent:
Kathy Sutter None
L. Ward Nelson
Connie Hoag
Barbara Brenner
Tom Brown
Robert Imhof
1. DISCUSSION WITH SENIOR DEPUTY PROSECUTOR DANIEL GIBSON
REGARDING KITTITAS COUNTY'S AMICUS FILING STATUS (AB99-
018)
Dawson stated that she put this item on the agenda because she felt the
issues are similar to County interests. The Pacific Legal Foundation is interested in
getting other counties to support the issue. She asked for a legal opinion from Dan
Gibson, Senior Civil Deputy Prosecutor. This is a partnership. It is not like the
Growth Management Act, which is mandatory. The County would be working with
the federal government.
Dan Gibson, Senior Civil Deputy Prosecutor, stated that this lawsuit was
characterized as a mini - lawsuit, which he disagreed. There are some problems with
the suit, because of the approach that the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS)
has done such a terrible job that there isn't a problem. NMFS has failed to do its
job to the extent that there should not be a listing. That is a difficult case to make.
They are saying that harvest levels have been mismanaged and there has been too
much by- catch. At the same time, they are compelled to say there isn't a problem
so there shouldn't a listing. The conjunction of the two positions is odd. Legally,
Jim Johnston, formerly of the Attorney General's (AG's) office, laid out a number of
theories that may serve his clients well. They will carry the lawsuit forward.
Regarding the Amicus status, other interested parties can seek to be designated as
friends of the court, so they can make their arguments as well. Apparently, the
Pacific Legal Foundation is looking for forces to ride on this process. In that
context, Whatcom County has probably been approached. Whatever needs to be
done is being done by others and does not serve Whatcom County's purposes. The
lawsuit contains a number of positions that are offensive. It assumes an answer on
the ability of the federal government to control Indian fishing. To the extent that
the lawsuit assumes a simple answer, and the County is working with the tribes on
legislative issues, they do not promote a working relationship by assuming an easy
answer to a difficult question.
Committee of the Whole, 6/1/99, Page 1
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Dawson stated that she agreed with the information about the tribal fish.
There are things in the suit that the tribes support. The predators also need to be
addressed. Some people have said to not get involved because it would harm the
working relationship. The tribes have said that the predators need to be addressed.
They also need to address the ocean fishing. They may not support taking their
nets out of the river. Everyone is in it together and has to abide by the federal
regulations.
Brenner stated that if the County is thinking about doing anything, they
should discuss it first with the tribes. No one should be blind- sided. She has not
seen the information regarding the lawsuit.
Dawson questioned whether they would want to schedule someone from
NMFS, the Tribes, and the Pacific Legal Foundation at the next Committee of the
Whole to have a roundtable discussion.
Hoag stated that they will not be able to talk together, but may be able to
separately.
Gibson stated that they should not be choosing sides, especially against the
tribes, whom they have to work with.
Brown stated that he supports this. Many things that the Council members
have felt are a problem have been mentioned in the lawsuit. Letting someone else
do battle on the issues, without taking part, is not his style. All of the information
is the majority of the problem with the salmon. There has been no problem getting
salmon until the 1960's. All of the land disturbances that have taken place in the
early part of the County's development are atrocious compared to what goes on
today. The citizens of the County should not have to take the brunt of the problem.
Unless the County participates in the suit to force the federal government to live up
to their responsibilities, it won't happen. They will damage the local citizens by
inaction.
Hoag stated that she would be happy to see the lawsuit filed. It raises issues
that are being overlooked. At the same time, it is not the same as Whatcom
County suing. She agreed with the issues that were brought up, but not the end
logic that there shouldn't be a listing. She can see a lot of disadvantages to filing a
suit. A lot of the work with the federal government's regulations is subject to
interpretation. If they want federal flexibility when applying regulations, they need
to have a good relationship. She questioned the advantage for the citizen if the
County were to join the suit. Gibson stated that, legally, there is no difference.
The Pacific Legal Foundation will make the same arguments for Kittitas that they
will make for Whatcom. He did not expect the judges in Washington D.C. to count
noses. Presumably, they make their decisions based upon the merits of the case.
Some people may see it differently, and believe that the legal process is more
political. He disagreed.
Imhof stated that there are 39 counties in the State, and no one has joined
so far. That should be an eye- opener. There are very few positives that would
come out of it. There are more negatives. He agreed with Gibson that it will be
Committee of the Whole, 6/1/99, Page 2
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argued whether Whatcom County is there or not. Whatcom County has other
issues to deal with.
Dawson questioned whether he would be supportive of having anyone come
in to discuss it. Imhof stated that he would not.
Sutter questioned for what decision they are looking. Gibson stated that the
Pacific Legal Foundation is looking for a Declaratory Judgement and Injunctive
Relief. They want the listing lifted and NMFS to be directed to do a number of other
things.
Sutter stated that she has a problem that the lawsuit says the listing is
erroneous. She was not sure that it is erroneous. The conclusion they drew is not
one that going is to be drawn by the courts. She would like to have answers to all
the questions that the lawsuit asks, but wondered whether they have to go to court
to get those answers. She didn't like to be forced to do things. They will not get
willing cooperation from NMFS or the federal government if they are going to be
forced. She questioned whether there are more effective and less costly ways to
get those answers from NMFS. She would not be supportive of having someone
address the Council on this issue.
Brenner stated that she liked the information that was brought up, but did
not agree that the fish were not in danger. She wanted the federal government to
pay for a lot of the expenses and expand what is covered. She wanted to work
toward getting issues resolved with federal funding. If the federal government
dumps the entire cost on the County, then she would not have a problem in the
future joining a lawsuit if she felt they are not getting anywhere.
Dawson stated that there is a consensus to postpone going further.
Brown stated that he will be writing a letter as a Council member supporting
the lawsuit.
2. DISCUSSION REGARDING THE COUNCIL'S LETTER WRITING POLICY
(AB99 -171A)
Dawson stated that this item was brought forward by Council Member Hoag.
If an issue is time - sensitive, she proposed that a supermajority send the letter
without it going before the Council at a Council meeting. She would also like copies
of the correspondence distributed to the other Council members.
Hoag stated that her suggestions are listed on Council packet page 244.
Imhof questioned why she wants approval by a supermajority.
Hoag stated that it would not be going through the public process.
Imhof stated that the public process is to bring a letter before the Council for
a vote.
Committee of the Whole, 6/1/99, Page 3
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Hoag stated that, if a letter does not go through the public process, then at
least five Council members should support it.
Dawson stated that most of the letters that are time - sensitive are regarding
legislative issues.
Imhof stated that it would be tough to get in touch with five people on a
time - sensitive deadline.
Hoag stated that the attempt should be made to contact all Council members
because one might know critical information about an issue that the others do not.
Dana Brown - Davis, Clerk of the Council, stated that the Council member
writing the letter should make the attempt to contact all the other Council members
because staff can't explain the issue.
The committee concurred.
Hoag stated that the reason for the supermajority is that it is easy to make
controversial decisions when no one is looking. That isn't appropriate. If they are
not doing something in a public forum, then they need to ensure that the Council is
really behind the issue. Getting four votes on the floor is different than getting four
votes behind closed doors.
Brenner stated that she did not mind it being a regular majority, as long as it
was announced at the next regular Council meeting. She was more concerned
about whether something was time critical.
Brown -Davis agreed that it go before the Council at the next regular
meeting.
The committee agreed that approval is only needed by a majority, and that
the letter would be announced at the next regular Council meeting.
policy.
Hoag moved to recommend that the Council adopt the proposal as a new
Motion carried unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
Dana Brown - Davis, Clerk of the Council, stated that there was a request by a
Council member to change the minutes format to reflect the order of business
rather than the order items are scheduled.
Imhof asked what the pros and cons are.
Brenner stated that it is more understandable if someone wants to go
through the meeting and see what happened. It is also easier for the Chair to
recall the events as they happened.
Committee of the Whole, 6/1/99, Page 4
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The committee concurred.
ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at approximately 7:00 p.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
These minutes were approved by Council on July 13 , 1999.
ATTEST:
Dana Brown - Davis, Council Clerk
WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
Marlene Dawson, Council Chair
Committee of the Whole, 6/1/99, Page 5