HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources March 7 20001
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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Natural Resources Committee
March 7, 2000
The meeting was called to order at 9:30 a.m. by Committee Chair Dan
McShane in the Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
Also Present: Absent:
L. Ward Nelson None
Connie Hoag
PUBLIC HEARING
1. DISCUSSION REGARDING THE SUMAS ENERGY 2 PROPOSED POWER
PLANT AND ASSOCIATED POWER TRANSMISSION LINES IN
WHATCOM COUNTY (AB2000 -125)
McShane stated he would excuse himself, and turned the committee over to
Councilmember Hoag because he is on the Energy Facilities Site Evaluation Council
(EFSEC).
Hoag explained the public hearing will be in two parts, the power plant and
the power lines, so that councilmember McShane can hear the comments only on
the power lines. Councilmember McShane is not allowed to have any ex parte
communication regarding the power plant. The committee wants to protect him
from that.
Nelson stated he preferred to discuss the power lines first.
Hoag stated the proposed routes for the power lines are on packet pages 12
and 13.
Power Lines
Della Johnson, 1694 Van Wyck Road, Bellingham, stated she was concerned
that they will have 3/4 miles of lines with approximately 20 poles inside their field.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 1
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The fields have cattle and hay, and the lines snap and crackle when it rains. She is
very concerned about the rain and the cattle being shocked from the falling rain off
of the power lines. Also, her daughter -in -law has cancer and this will have an
effect on her when they move to the house. The lines will go very close to their
house. They will have to take out their windbreak trees near the house and below
the barn. The barn is covered with metal. They do not want the power lines.
Darryl Ehlers, 2366 Haverstick Road, Lynden, stated one of the proposed
lines will go down the Halverstick Road on its way to Custer. The other line goes
toward Everson and Bellingham. That creates two electrical corridors. The line in
front of his place is 12.5 kilovolts, with a 35 foot pole that holds the distribution
lines. The proposal is for 115 kilovolts with a larger amount of amperage being
sent through to use it as a transport line rather than a distribution line. He was
concerned about it. The amount of poles would be an obstruction to his berry farm.
He would have to cut some berries from his field. Because of the high
transmission, the AM radio does not transmit. He suggested that any transfer lines
stay in the electrical corridor. The poles will be within 10 or 20 feet of some
peoples' houses. Last winter, five high voltage poles were lost during the storm.
This is dangerous to the houses close to these poles. He's cleared all the land they
own, except three acres of 100 - year -old trees. The survey stakes indicate that
they will have to take 20 - 40 feet of his trees. He was strongly opposed to any
electrical corridors other than the ones that currently exist.
Al Hanners, 3007 Plymouth Drive, Bellingham, stated his concern is about
upholding the law on the limit of power lines. The company has not been
consistent with their proposal. He feels they intend to overbuild the lines to carry a
higher voltage, then plead a hardship and ask the Council to exceed the present
law. The public voted overwhelmingly to limit the power lines that are not in high
voltage corridors.
Candice Ambrosio, 1712 High Noon Road, Bellingham, stated that when
people became educated on power lines in 1989, Puget Power planned to install a
corridor from British Columbia through Whatcom County to places further south.
People learned about the effects on health, dairy land and cattle, quality of life, and
land values. The citizens of the County passed an initiative by a 2/3 majority,
which said the power lines need to stay in existing corridors or in industrial places.
They cannot put the public near these corridors. Before the initiative was passed,
Puget Power chose to work with Bonneville and use the same corridor. She feared
that the power plant would go through the County and will put up high tension
power lines. They cannot build 230 - kilovolt lines, according to the initiative.
However, she believed they will put in 115 - kilovolt lines, and will eventually
upgrade to 230 - kilovolt lines. She also felt that the public has not been
appropriately notified. The people have spoken by passing Initiative 490, which
says that the lines must be kept in the corridor. The City of Bellingham chose not
to locate a new school at a particular location because it was near the corridor.
They need to keep the high power lines in the corridor where they belong. This is a
countywide issue that puts the quality of life at stake in favor of a company that
makes a lot of money by selling their energy to areas to the south.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 2
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Ehlers stated the planned electrical poles would be near where a two -foot gas
line is proposed to go.
Marlene Noteboom, 8000 Thiel Road, Lynden, stated she lives in a quiet,
rural area, and they have a dairy farm. Many people tour the area. This pastoral
scene is representative of the quality of life in the county. The proposed high
voltage transmission lines would effect the pastoral scene. There is a large tourism
industry in the county. The pastoral scene at their home frames the mountains.
There home has been featured on calendars and commercials. She came from an
area that was a dairy county, but no longer is. She didn't want that to happen in
Whatcom County. People don't want to have the transmission lines.
Electromagnetic fields, stray voltage, and dangerous lines that are 20 feet from her
living room window would directly effect her household. Even the small distribution
lines nearby are dangerous to the wildlife and the area. These power lines are
jeopardizing the health, safety, and personal quality of life.
Lavaun Radder, 3322 Clearbook Road, Sumas, stated she was concerned
about the lines. They used to pasture cattle on Clearbrook Road. Chicken wire and
wood was used as fencing. When the animals touched that fence, they would get a
shock. Five heifers died from being shocked. Puget Power first said the problem
wasn't from their line, then came out and fixed the wire that was not grounded.
She knew of a family who has cancer and who lives under the power lines.
Irwin Noteboom, 8000 Thiel Road, Lynden, stated he is a dairy farmer and
has lived on his farm for 56 years. The amount of lines being proposed is limited
by the initiative, and the company is trying to push too much power along the
limited lines. When the lines are too small, heat will build up and stray voltage will
appear. Cows are very susceptible to high voltage. The cows have wet feet on the
concrete in the milking parlor, and when hooked up to the milking machine they will
get zapped. When the cows drink water they will be zapped. The cows will learn
not to drink water or let down their milk because they will get zapped. That
produces a drop in the milk volume. Next, the cow gets mastitis because it hold
the milk up all the time. In a few days, one has a beef cow instead of a dairy cow.
It doesn't take long to lose thousands of dollars. A dairy farm cannot have stray
voltage, so one of three things must happen. The company must stop transmitting
electricity, the stray voltage problem must be found, or the dairy must go out of
business. Dairy farms have high fixed costs, such as buildings and equipment that
can only be used to milk cows. It doesn't take long for stray voltage to bankrupt a
farmer.
Paul Vautaux, 4626 Van Wyck Lane, Bellingham, stated ten years ago the
citizens went through this with Puget Power and where the lines go. He was
surprised to see this come up again. There are no federal agencies involved in this
and it is up to the people to do something. It doesn't make sense to have someone
come into the community and build something that does not benefit the
community. At the transmission scoping hearings, he sat next to a woman from
one of the federal agencies who was stunned at the quantity of transmission and
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 3
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distribution lines in this area. This is not allowed in other places. He encouraged
economic development that benefits the people who are here.
Ehlers stated the present power poles are 35 feet tall. The company is
proposing poles that are 80 feet or higher. That is a 150 percent increase in length
with a 900 percent increase in voltage and amperage.
Bruce Thompson, Sumas Energy 2 Inc. Sr. Vice President, 1822 - 145th Court
NE, Woodinville, Washington, stated the proposal is to build a 230,000 -volt
transmission line from within the City of Sumas, across the Canadian -U.S. border,
which is approximately five miles north, to the B.C. Hydro Clayburn substation in
Abbottsford, B.C. The Washington EFSEC will publish a draft environmental impact
statement (EIS) in two weeks. In that statement, and in their decision - making,
EFSEC determined that investor -owned utilities or public utilities in Whatcom
County may be interested in purchasing power from the facility. They have
included the Whatcom County transmission line routes as an environmental
alternative in the draft EIS. The other point is that Sumas Energy 2 Inc. is not
proposing to own, operate, or build these alternative transmission lines. They
would not be the applicant, nor would the Washington EFSEC exercise jurisdiction
for these potential transmission line routes in Whatcom County. An electric utility
or transmission line company may potentially build those lines. If those companies
decide to do that, they would have to apply for a conditional use permit or major
development permit from the County. Sumas Energy 2 Inc. would not be the
applicant. There will be ample opportunity for the public to comment on the draft
environmental statement. Hearings will be held by EFSEC.
Ehlers asked Mr. Thompson why the engineers would say the hook up and
line charge for the plant would be prohibitive in cost if the line went to Canada.
One engineer said they had no intention of really going to Canada.
Thompson stated that he could not verify what an engineer said, but the
company's intention is to build a 230,000 -volt line to the B.C. Hydro substation at
Clayburn in Abbottsford B.C. The route into Abbottsford is the most cost - effective.
Ehlers questioned whether the company had a comparison cost between the
two proposals of going to Canada or going across the County. Thompson stated
there are preliminary cost figures on what the Bonneville Power Administration's
(BPA) charges might be for using electricity within their system. At this point, they
are fairly comparable in cost. Because of current rate hearings BPA has on
connection charges, they can't say for sure what those costs would be.
Nelson stated there seems to be a general concern with electromagnetic
fields (EMF) and dairy cattle. In the material Mr. Thompson sent to Councilmember
Hoag, it said he had not yet had an answer about that concern. There is a great
deal of research on EMF transmissions in power lines. He didn't know if there is
much information on EMF transmissions at this voltage level. He questioned
whether Mr. Thompson had received any information on that issue. Thompson
stated he is also an officer of Sumas Energy Inc., which is the owner and operator
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 4
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of the Sumas cogeneration plant. They did studies with their first project. Several
dairy farmers that live to the south of the existing project in Sumas were concerned
about stray voltage. The company picked the DeVries's farm to do stray voltage
testing because it was also worried about how the transformers and power lines
would affect the dairy operations. Some farmers said they wanted the company to
buy out their dairy farms if there was an adverse effect. The company and the
farmers mutually agreed to hire the Whatcom County agricultural extension agent.
(Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side A.)
Thompson continued to state that the agricultural extension agent did testing
over a week's period. The extension service and the farmers agreed to do stray
voltage testing with multi- testers. The results were recorded 24 hours per day,
over several days. The DeVries' farm was chosen because it is the closest to the
plant site. The instrumentation was set within the dairy operation very near the
milking parlor. That was before the plant started commercial operation. After the
plant was constructed, the same agricultural extension agent did more readings to
see if there were increased levels of stray voltage or EMF. The result of that very
thorough study indicated there was not a change in any of the current or voltage
levels from the plant being in operation. They received a very strong consensus
from the DeVries family that there was no animal or physiological affect that was
occurring from the generation plant. The DeVries' family farm is several hundred
feet to the north, across Johnson Creek. He and the dairy farmers were satisfied
there was no physiological affects on the dairy operation. That was a positive
finding that came out of that.
Nelson questioned whether power lines existed on the DeVries' farm.
Thompson stated there are not. There are distribution lines that run down Bowen
Road. They were concerned about the distribution lines on the plant site.
Nelson questioned the voltage of the transmission site. Thompson stated the
voltage is 63,000 volts.
Hoag stated it is not by the farm they tested.
Nelson questioned the voltage at the dairy farm and whether the power line
is at the farm. Thompson stated the power line is at their site. It runs fairly close
to the DeVries' farm.
Hoag stated it does not.
Nelson questioned the distance from the power line to the farm. Thompson
stated it is several hundred feet. It may be as much as 500 feet away.
Hoag questioned whether that was the distance of the power line from the
farm. Thompson stated the power lines run south of the plant property, at the back
of the plant. The transformer yard is 400 to 500 feet away.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 5
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Hoag stated it is further than that.
Thompson stated the important issue is that they did the stray voltage
testing at their request. There was no affect from the operation of the facility, the
transformer yard, or the power lines.
Irwin Noteboom stated the Sumas Energy 1 plant goes to the substation at
the corner of Highway 9 and Garrison Road. Thompson stated Puget Sound Energy
built two line routes from the Sumas Energy substation. One line goes west to the
substation at Highway 9 and Garrison Road. The other line goes east and out of
the plant.
Irwin Noteboom stated they tested one farm. The lines that are proposed
are going by numerous dairy farms. Stray voltage occurs anywhere in a
happenstance manner. He questioned what would happen if he got stray voltage.
In every instance, dairy farmers get stray voltage and the utilities deny there is a
problem. No one knows where the stray voltage comes from. In the meantime,
the dairy farmer goes bankrupt. Thompson stated whoever builds those power line
routes would be a public or investor -owned utility that would have to respond to
those concerns and do whatever stray voltage testing or field investigations
necessary to look into that issue. His company will not be the owner, operator, or
builder of those line routes in Whatcom County.
Nelson questioned whether there is data available about stray voltage in the
dairy industry. Thompson stated he is familiar with some of the information on
EMF. There is probably not a unified position on the effects of EMF. EMF has been
studied for 20 to 30 years. The results are inconclusive. The majority of the
studies indicate there is no proven scientific evidence that EMF from 115,000 -volt
lines causes aberrant human effects. The preponderance of EMF studies and
examinations indicate there is no direct correlation or cause - and - effect from EMF
and human health concerns.
Brenner asked if it has been disproven. Thompson stated it is based on how
one interprets the studies. The preponderance of information he has looked at
indicate there is not indisputable evidence that EMF causes human health effects.
Brenner stated she would like to know whether there is absolutely no
connection. The fact that it is inconclusive infers that something is going on. If it is
very clear that there isn't a problem, there would be a preponderance of evidence
that there is no problem. Thompson stated they wouldn't find a lot of studies that
say there is absolutely no problem.
Nelson stated the studies he has seen concludes that they can't find any
evidence.
Brenner asked how hard or easy it is to make that determination. If it is
very difficult to find that information, they may not be able to find a connection.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 6
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Nelson explained there is no exact number.
Thompson stated it might be helpful with the EFSEC draft environmental
impact statement is published in two weeks. The draft EIS addresses the issues
they are asking about. It might be a good source of information for the
councilmembers and the public.
Marlene Noteboom, 8000 Thiel Road, stated her mother lived for 50 years
within one quarter of a mile of the large transmission lines. She passed away of a
malignant brain tumor four years ago. She asked Thompson if he had ever
watched anyone pass away from cancer.
Hoag stated the current plant, according to the application, is 125
megawatts. The proposed plant is 660 megawatts. That is a considerable
difference in power. Also, there are two lines coming from the current plant to two
separate substations. They are splitting that 125- megawatt load into 60 and 70
megawatts. They proposed to split the 660 megawatts into two 330 - megawatt
lines. Again, that is a considerable difference in the amount of power. There are
stray voltage studies done by the University of Wisconsin that deal with the dairy
industry. When she was on EFSEC she attended the agency scoping meeting.
During that meeting they disclosed the possibility of these lines going through
Whatcom County. She questioned why they would want to have two long lines
going through Whatcom County and experience all the difficulties they would
encounter with the public rather than send the lines to Canada. The representative
for Sumas Energy, at that meeting, said the costs were too high in Canada and it
was never the company's intention to run the lines to Canada. The mayor of
Sumas asked Darryl Jones if the company was in negotiations with Canada to send
the power to Canada. The answer was no. The statements that were made during
this meeting are misleading.
Power Plant
Darryl Ehlers, 2366 Halverstick Road, stated the main concern is farming.
He has been a farmer for 54 years. He has approximately six wells on the
property. As the population and the demand for water increases, he has noticed
that the water table has gone down. Sumas Energy will be using 9.5 million gallons
of water.
Hoag stated the amount is 940,000 gallons per day.
Ehlers stated he is concerned about the aquifer and the flood plain. The site
will fill in the flood plain. Filling in that large site would redirect the water and
cause a lack of places for the water to go. The DeVries' noticed their patio
furniture was covered with a red dust. They called the Sumas cogeneration plant.
The company told them to buy more furniture. This is an inkling of what the
pollution situation would become, which would be equivalent to 490,000 cars per
day. He is surprised that some of the people are just now being informed. He is
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 7
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opposed to any plant being constructed in Sumas. There is no shortage of electrical
power in the Pacific Northwest. The power is intended to go to other states, not
here.
Karen Zeby, 8451 Morning Side Drive, Blaine, questioned where the plant
has been before. She questioned whether there is an established plant with this
megawattage so the residents can find out from other citizens what has happened
in other areas. Thompson stated that Sumas Energy does not presently own a
thermal generation plant using natural gas of the size that is being proposed in
Sumas. The existing facility is 125 megawatts. There are plants of this size in the
United States. Several are under construction and one or two are in operation.
There is information on these plants. The plants are similar in design and
construction, with similar kinds of emission control equipment that Sumas Energy 2
is proposing here. It is not possible in today's society, with the existing regulations
and requirements from citizens, businesses, and environmentalists, to build a plant
that isn't highly efficient, clean, and as quite as possible. If the citizens want
information on the facility, he will provide information.
Hoag stated she asked for that information a couple of months ago. At the
Sumas City Council meeting, Thompson mentioned a plant of this size in Oregon.
She questioned the name of that plant. Thompson stated it might have been the
Klamath or Hermiston facility that is over the 250 - megawatt range.
Hoag stated she asked for information on plants that are around 660
megawatts so she could look at comparable emissions, noise, and turbines. She
didn't ask for information on any plant that is over 250 megawatts. Thompson
stated he was not sure of the existing information that is available.
Nelson stated some of Thompson's information said that there is a plant in
Centralia at 1,310 megawatts and a plant in WMP2 at 1,200.
Hoag stated that is a different question.
Thompson stated those are different plants. They are coal, not natural gas.
Hoag stated the only plants larger than the proposed Sumas Energy plant are
the coal- burning plants. She has been waiting for a long time for the answer to her
question. Thompson apologized for not providing her with that information.
Hoag asked what the $1.2 million dollars, which is supposed to be spent
locally, would go to. She asked that question once to another Sumas Energy
representative, but was not given an answer that is specific enough. Thompson
stated he read the letter from the representative to Councilmember Hoag. It was
quite explanatory about their $1.5 million budget for operating expenses. Any
business of this type buys parts and supplies in the community, buys fuel, and does
repair and maintenance. That is an accurate budget for this facility, based on their
past experience with other plants they operate around the country.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 8
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Hoag stated that is not what she asked for. She asked for information on
how much they expect to spend for different items. Instead, she got the same
lump figure of $1.2 million. Since the company is in the business, has an existing
plant, and projected those expenses, it shouldn't be too difficult to tell her what it
expects to spend the money on.
Brenner questioned whether Thompson was aware of any other plants that
are specifically like the proposed plant, with the same amount of megawatt output.
Thompson stated he didn't know of a plant that is exactly 660 megawatts. There
are several plants that are in the 500 - megawatt range. They may have a peak
power production of 600 megawatts.
Brenner questioned whether it is possible that this proposed plant is the
largest one. Thompson stated it would be the largest thermo - generating plant in
the State of Washington if it is approved, financed, and built.
Brenner questioned whether it would be the largest in the country.
Thompson stated he didn't think it would be the largest in the United States. It
might be one of the largest.
Hoag stated there is a proposed plant in the 800 - megawatt range.
Brenner asked for information on an operating plant that is at least this high
or higher. Thompson stated he would provide that information.
(Clerk's Note: The committee took a one - minute break to reestablish the
quorum, which was lost.)
Harold Odegaard, 836 Garfield Street, Sumas, stated the people of Sumas
have always prided themselves on their area for its clean air. He is excited about
the tax base the energy plant will bring to the community. It will bring in money
for the schools and the City of Sumas. He is also concerned about the health
effects this will have on the community. Most of the time, the breeze blows from
the direction of the plant into the town. Sumas will be in the direct line of the air
emissions coming from the plant. He doesn't always believe the big companies.
The citizens see more untruths all the time. They should make sure there are no
health hazards for the people in the area. He questioned whether those who live in
Sumas should have any concern about breathing the air.
Kirk Winges, MFG, Inc. Air Quality Consultant, 18031 NE 99th Court,
Redmond, stated he is an air pollution scientist and has been doing air pollution
studies for 22 years. His company did extensive studies of the air pollution impacts
that might occur from the Sumas Energy 2 plant. His company didn't just look at
when the wind blew at a certain percentage of the time. His company took
meteorological data from multiple years and ran it through a computer model. The
model showed hourly observations of wind speeds and wind directions. The
company looked at how often the wind blew from a certain direction from specific,
actual, measured data. They had a comprehensive emissions inventory from the
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 9
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plant on all the major pollutants, including carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, and
nitrogen oxides. That information was put into a computer model. Those
chemicals' concentrations were calculated at locations throughout the City of Sumas
as well as throughout areas of Whatcom County. The resulting impacts, what a
person would breathe, were averaged out by hour, three hour, eight hour, 24 hour,
annual, and five -year. Ultimately, those numbers were compared to levels
established by the United States government to protect human health. They also
compared the results to the standards set by the State of Washington. In all
studies in every case, the conclusions were that the concentrations in all areas were
well below any standards or any levels considered hazardous to human health.
There were additional, extensive studies done to determine whether there
would be impacts on sensitive environmental areas, such as the national parks and
the national wilderness areas. The Canadians did their own air pollution study and
did a study of the plant to determine the impact on the ozone levels that exist in
the Frasier River Valley. They concluded that the impacts of the plant on ozone
levels would be negligible. In all the studies and examinations they've done to
specifically answer the citizens' questions, they've come up with the conclusion that
the facility has no significant potential threat to human health as a result of air
pollution. There isn't much else they can do. They've taken the best science they
have and applied it in the most exhaustive and comprehensive fashion they know.
They've come up with the conclusion that there is no significant human health
impact.
Odegaard asked about the tonnage of chemicals coming out of the plan. He
read that several hundred tons would come from the plant. Winges stated air
pollution emissions are expressed in terms of tons per year. That is common. The
reason that it seems like so much is because a stack puts out a lot of air 24 hours
per day. The air has a certain mass to it, which is expressed in tons. There is a lot
of tonnage of air coming through the system. Even though the air pollutants are in
minute quantities, there are millions and millions of tons of air coming out of the
plant. The pollutants are present in small quantities. There are a few hundred tons
of pollutants that are emitted. The important thing is to put it into context and
compare the tonnage of those pollutants with other things that are already in
Whatcom County, such as comparing the percentage of the total oxides of nitrogen
(NOx) that is produced by the plant with the total tonnage produced by all the other
sources in Whatcom County and the lower Frasier Valley. The Sumas Energy 2
plant is a small percentage of the total of what is coming out from other sources.
Odegaard asked if the emissions tend to go toward the ground or go up and
stay up.
Winges stated they go up and mix with the atmosphere. This plant is
designed with a stack that is tall enough to avoid building down -wash. Some plants
are built with stacks on the roof that are not very tall. If the air blows over the
building, it creates a vortex behind the building that sucks the pollutants down. If
they build the stack tall enough, they get out of that. This plant will be built with a
stack tall enough to avoid that. As it goes downwind, the pollutants are brought
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back to the ground as they are brought up to the top of the mixing height. They
are mixed and dispersed out in all directions.
Odegaard questioned whether much of it would go to ground level.
Winges stated that it would not.
Odegaard questioned whether Winges was paid any money by the plant.
Winges stated he gets a salary from his company for doing air pollution
studies. His company was hired by the energy plant and is paid by the energy
plant.
Odegaard questioned whether Winges would be concerned about living in
Sumas.
Winges stated he would not be concerned at all. The air quality in Sumas is
good. He would be more concerned about living in Redmond, which is where he
lives presently, than about living in Sumas.
Brenner questioned whether Winges' firm was hired by the proponent.
Winges stated that is correct.
Brenner questioned whether Winges could definitively say that any
consultant firm hired by an opponent would be able to make any determination of a
risk. A scientist can make numbers say anything. She questioned whether a
consultant could come up with numbers that would be of concern.
Winges stated he believed that if the opponents hired another responsible,
respectable consulting firm that used good science, it would come to the same
conclusion that there would not be any human health impacts associated with this
facility.
Brenner questioned whether best science, if done another way, would
produce results that would be of concern. Winges stated they would not.
Brenner stated another councilmember who has been to Sumas told her he
talked to Sumas residents extensively and asked them about the plant. Without
exception, people are telling that councilmember that they don't have concerns and
everything seems fine. She questioned when Odegaard started getting concerns,
and why. Odegaard stated he has thought a lot about it lately. He is not against
having the plant. It is great for the tax base and for jobs. He is asking questions
because he is a layman at this. He is concerned about his health and the health of
his friends and family.
Brenner questioned whether Odegaard attended any of the open houses.
Odegaard stated this is the first meeting he attended.
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Hoag stated information says there will be 236 tons per year of nitrous oxide,
223 tons of particulate matter that is 10 microns or smaller, 156 tons of volatile
organic chemicals, and more. With all the different toxics, that results in almost
three tons of pollutants per day. She questioned whether any of the figures she
gave include the air. Winges stated he would try to answer her question.
Hoag interrupted and stated it is not that difficult. She questioned whether
or not the tonnage amount of three tons per day of toxics and regulated pollutants
includes air. Winges stated that is the tonnage of the pollutants. The point he was
trying to make is that there are millions and millions of tons of air that come out of
the plant. There is a small quantity of pollutants that come out of the air because
they in the parts per million range in the air that is exhausted out of the plant.
Hoag stated the public is not concerned about the air that is coming out of
the plant, they are concerned about the toxics that are coming out. Mr. Odegaard's
question was whether the tonnage figures that have been reported in the
newspaper are correct. Winges stated they are correct. However, his response to
Mr. Odegaard and the point he was trying to make is that a lot of people are
concerned when they hear the word ton because they don't think of air weighing
tons.
Hoag stated they are not concerned about the air. They are concerned about
the toxics, which is in the amount of three tons per day. Of course people are
concerned. She would think that Mr. Winges would understand that.
Winges stated he does understand that. He works in the field and knows
that people have a problem with the word ton. People think that a ton of pollution
is a lot of pollution.
Hoag stated she would agree.
Nelson asked how the tonnage would compare to automobile emissions.
Winges stated it depends on what pollutants they are looking at. Cars produce a lot
of some pollutants, but not much of others. Cars produce much carbon monoxide.
A car driving on the freeway at 65 miles per hour will generate a certain number of
pounds of carbon monoxide. Six cars driving on the freeway at 65 miles per hour
for one hour would produce the same amount of carbon monoxide that the plant
would produce in one hour. The amount of 490,000 cars is misleading because it is
not based on a pollutant, it is based on carbon dioxide, which is a greenhouse gas.
It has no human health impacts. It is considered a greenhouse gas because they
can end up with the effects of global warming when there is a lot of it. People think
of 490,000 cars running at the same time, which is not how the equation works.
The carbon dioxide produced by the plant is equivalent to 20,000 cars running
continuously. Because cars don't run continuously, they have to have a lot of cars
in the equation to get the same amount of emissions as the plant, which runs
continuously. The plant is designed to take methane and turn it into carbon dioxide
and, in the process, it extracts energy from that. That is the main purpose of the
power plant. They want to make as much carbon dioxide as they can. If they
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combust something, and carbon dioxide isn't made, carbon monoxide will result.
They want to generate as much electricity as they can for every pound of carbon
dioxide they produce. With the current modern efficiency to which the plant was
designed, it will produce the least amount of CO2 per megawatt generated of any
electrical facility in the State of Washington. Compared to coal or oil, far more CO2
is produced per megawatt of electricity. In that sense, this plant provides the most
electricity for every pound of CO2 that is generated.
Hoag stated she was quoted the statistic of 490,000 cars in the newspaper.
She made it clear she was talking about carbon dioxide. She mentioned that figure
at a summit she was invited to in Canada by the Greater Vancouver Regional
District. They were specifically dealing with carbon dioxide at that summit.
(Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side 8.)
Hoag continued to state that she pointed out to the people at the summit
that if the plant goes online, they could convince 1/2 million people not to use their
cars and it would not make a dent in the amount of carbon dioxide. That is where
the statistic came from. It is not a misleading statistic. It was directly stated as
carbon dioxide. She has a study done by Environment Canada. The amount of
nitrous oxide produced would be equivalent to 7,400 cars. Nitrous oxide is what
combines with volatile organic compounds to create ozone, which has very serious
health threats. The amount of carbon monoxide produced would equal 300 cars.
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) figured an equivalent of 336 cars.
They used a slightly different car or speed in their formula. The EPA figures are
higher than those cited in the Environment Canada report. She provided the
statistics quoted by Environment Canada. The sulfur dioxide produced would be
equivalent to 11,900 cars. Sulfur dioxide, according to the study, converts to
sulfuric acid when combined with water. Sulfuric acid is highly irritating to the
sensitive mucosal surface lining of the respiratory tract. Prolonged or repeated
exposure causes chronic inflammatory changes. There are a number of details in
this study. She urged Councilmember Nelson to read the report because he works
in the health field and is concerned about health.
Nelson stated it is commonly known as acid rain.
Hoag stated there are a number of health issues related to the emissions.
She cannot talk to Mr. Nelson about this issue outside of a public meeting. The
volatile organic compounds produced would be equivalent to 4,800 vehicles. The
PM10, which is particulate matter that is ten microns or smaller, that would be
produced is equivalent to 336,000 cars. PM10 is one of the items that causes
asthma problems. If one is going to talk about vehicle equivalents, it is important
to talk about all of them, not just one. They burn different fuels and there are
different technologies. The public should know that Mr. Winges formula of six cars
running on the freeway for an hour is not how any of the agencies typically deal
with vehicle equivalents. They deal with annual emissions. This study from
Environment Canada, the University of Washington information, and the
information from the EPA are all based on annual emissions, average miles driven,
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average speeds, and average efficiencies with gasoline. The reason is to compare
the impacts based on real vehicle use.
Nelson asked to hear Mr. Winges' response.
Winges stated his calculation of six cars is correct. Nothing the Canadians
say differs from that. He was simply trying to provide reference for Mr. Nelson in
response to his question. The reason the Canadians say 300 cars and he says six
cars is because cars only run two to three percent of the time. They have to have
300 cars there with most not running in order to include the estimate that two to
three percent are running.
Hoag stated his six cars would have to be running 24 hours per day to truly
be equivalent.
Winges stated that was correct. In addition, agencies don't typically do car
equivalents. They did the car equivalents for this because someone asked them to
provide a frame of reference or an equivalent. They don't typically equate a plant
like this to cars because it is not a good comparison. A car runs intermittently,
whereas a plant runs continuously.
Hoag stated she received the equivalent of 490,000 cars regarding the
carbon dioxide from a University of Washington /Department of Energy consultant
that was working for EFSEC. However, the other figures are from the EPA and
Environment Canada. They were not requested. They were pulled from the
internet.
Winges stated his point is that normally one does not make a comparison to
how many cars is equivalent. That is not something the agencies do regularly. The
reason the sulfur dioxide and PM10 numbers are so large in terms of equivalent
cars is because automobiles aren't a major source of PM10 and are not a major
source of sulfur dioxide. The PM10 in that equation is exhaust -only PM10.
Automobiles are responsible for a lot of particulate matter, but it is a result of the
dust they kick up off the roads and the wear on breaks and tires. The emission
factor in the Canadian study is exclusively exhaust particulate that comes out of the
tailpipe. Automobiles have an extremely small percentage of PM10 in the exhaust
contribution. Sulfur dioxide amounts are also extremely small in cars. Some sulfur
dioxide comes from diesel fuel that is burned in diesel automobiles, but those
emission factors in the study are exclusively gasoline - powered automobiles.
Automobiles are not a good comparison to use to get a feel for how big a particular
facility is.
Hoag stated this plant puts out a lot of sulfur dioxide, not only compared to a
car. The one -hour average background amount is 37 pg /m3, and the amount put
out by this plant is 72 pg /m3, for a total of 109 pg /m3. The background amount is
the amount that exists with all of the industry. The contribution of this plant will be
72 pg /m3. She urged Councilmember Nelson to read packet page 16, which talks
about the health effects of that pollutant.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 14
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Al Hanners, 3307 Plymouth Drive, Bellingham, stated he went through the
packet on air pollution in detail. He is not an air pollution expert, however he is a
scientist, so he understands some of those things. The conclusions were the best
done at the time, but are also a house of cards. When they estimated the pollution,
they did a lot of computer modeling. The estimates are based on the pollution in
the Abbottsford airport and the modeling. The modeling was based on wind
direction and other effects, such as stack heights, wind velocity, and topography.
There isn't anywhere where there are any facts. It is all based on what they
plugged into the computer. Companies hire consultants to confirm what they want
done. He understood that the Sumas Energy 2 plant would get their water from the
City of Sumas. If the Department of Ecology okays it, that is it. However, there is
a third organization involved. That is the state. The state has set up a commission
that is looking into the allocation of water rights. No one has brought that up. It
seems that the County has a responsibility to serve the public and other water
users. He wanted to see that organization review the use of water by the Sumas
Energy 2 plant. That is something to be considered. Certain other organizations
thought they had water rights. The City of Bellingham has the right to use water
out of the Nooksack, but they are worried about losing the right. It is
oversimplified to say that the City of Sumas has granted the right to the plant and,
if the plant gets the okay from the Department of Ecology, it will get the water.
The County could request to be an intervener at the EFSEC proceedings. He
wanted the County Council to look into that to see whether Sumas is serving the
people who elected them.
Hoag questioned what commission Hanners referred to. Hanners stated he
didn't remember the name of the commission. Kelli Linville instigated it.
Dawson stated it sounded like the watershed planning process.
Hanners stated that process should look into this plant.
Brenner questioned whether Hanners believed that another scientist or
consultant hired by the opponents could come up with a different level of concern.
Hanners stated the question should be whether another scientist would come up
with a different result. Anyone who pays any attention to criminal trials knows that
anyone with money can hire consultants to support whatever they want. There is
science, and then there is representation of results. It is about where the emphasis
is placed.
Candice Ambrosio, 1712 High Noon Road, Bellingham, stated people came
from everywhere during the Department of Energy hearings to tell tragic stories
about high tension power lines. The benefits of the plan are not worth it to the
citizens. She is very concerned about the air pollutants and what they are doing to
Sumas. It should be a concern to all citizens of the County. Everyone should be
educated about what is happening here. If they are planning to go with a 230 -
kilovolt line to Canada, the County has restrictions on putting in new 230 - kilovolt
lines. Since they are planning to cross an international border, it seems that a
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presidential permit is needed. As representatives, the Council needs to look at all
the issues. The plant is using a lot of natural resources. The air quality in the
county is part of their quality of life. This company's power plant will benefit other
people, not the citizens of Whatcom County, except for the school district.
Don Peterson, Sumas Mayor, stated that most of the people who've spoken
don't live in Sumas, but live out in the county and in surrounding areas. If they
have concerns, they need to be heard. Most of the people of Sumas are quite
comfortable with the power plant. The information is available, and there are ways
of getting that information if people are concerned. City government's first
responsibility is to the citizens. He has known Mr. Odegaard for many years. He
shares Mr. Odegaard's concerns. He would never do anything in the city that would
hurt him or his constituents. He hasn't heard anything about the plant that
concerns him. He is not an expert on air emissions, and doesn't claim to be. He
doesn't have to be. There is an EFSEC in process. The EFSEC has a responsibility
to protect him, the City of Sumas, the County, and the state. They have to let
EFSEC do its job.
Most of the folks that have testified live in the county, away from Sumas.
Their big concern seems to be about the transmission lines. The proposed permit
states that Sumas Energy 2 will run its power into Canada, not into the county. If
Bonneville or Puget Power want to come along and buy power from the plant, they
have a transmission problem at which point the County has the problem. The
County permits the lines, not EFSEC. If the County felt that the transmission lines
were a threat or a danger, it can deny the permit. The proposed permit from
Sumas Energy 2 that is in place says the company will build a transmission line to
Canada. The Council is hearing about the survey markers that are showing up in
the county. Those flags in the ditches are from the border patrol, who is getting
ready to put in a fiber -optic cable from Sumas to Blaine. It doesn't have anything
to do with the transmission lines, that he knows of.
Regarding the water issue, the City of Sumas will not give its water rights to
the cogeneration plant. They are a water utility and will sell water to the company.
The city has enough water rights to service them and the population growth for the
next 20 years. At the end of that 20 years, there will be a problem because they
will need more water. It is coming to a crisis point. The City of Lynden has already
been shut off because they are over their water rights limits. He assumed there
will be a solution to the future and hoped it happens prior to the end of the 20 -year
period. If he felt the cogeneration plant was a threat, he would fight it. It has
been in Sumas for ten or twelve years. It has been a good neighbor. He has never
heard a complaint from a Sumas citizen about the existing plant.
Hoag responded that most of the people were testifying because they
received a letter from the company explaining that lines would be running past their
homes. They talked with EFSEC about that letter because it was very misleading.
The company told people that the poles would be slightly taller, when they will
really be two to three times as tall. The company also said they would use existing
115 - kilovolt lines, but it is not. The proposed lines are not existing 115 - kilovolt
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 16
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lines. They are 7.2 kilovolts or 12.5 kilovolts at the largest. Some of them only
have a service drop. There was also a letter sent to the people in the City of
Sumas that invited them to the company's open house. The company requested
from EFSEC that the interveners be called for before the draft environmental impact
statement was out. EFSEC said the company needs to make an attempt to let
everyone know who may be impacted, if the company wants to do that. The
attorney general's office spoke at the EFSEC hearing and said the letter sent to the
people in the City of Sumas was very misleading, did not alert the residents to the
impacts, and would not have raised concern with the constituents there. To this
point, that is all the information the residents have had. She intends to contact
them and make sure they are aware of exactly what will be coming out of the plant.
The people she has begun to contact are not aware of the things the Sumas City
Council was told, such as the sound levels at the residential borders being twice as
loud as the sound level that interferes with sleep. The majority of the people in the
City of Sumas don't know about the 2.5 million - gallon oil tank that will sit on top of
their aquifer.
Peterson stated the tank would not be on the aquifer.
Hoag stated it is on the aquifer, but is not on the unrestricted portion that
surrounds the well field. It is on top of the Sumas /Abbottsford aquifer.
Peterson stated it is south of the aquifer.
Hoag stated the residents are also not aware of the air emissions. There are
a number of issues the residents don't know about. She will try to get that
information to the residents because the company has not done a good job of
getting that information to them. She believes that the people have a right to
know. If the company is not going to tell them, she will. The Council will hold
hearings in the future regarding that. At the Sumas City Council meeting, she
mentioned studies that have been done regarding health. She has one of the
studies she referred to and will provide more. Also, she would provide the reports
regarding the sound travel, which was not addressed properly in the application.
There are things that Mayor Peterson should be concerned about.
In terms of the water, the people of Sumas are also not aware of the amount
of water that has been allocated to this plant. According to the figures provided by
City Administrator David Davidson, the city is providing 1,053 acre -feet per year to
this plant. What the city has allocated for all its growth in its service area for the
next 20 years is 369 acre -feet per year. This plant is getting three times what the
City of Sumas planned for growth in the entire area for the next 20 years.
Peterson stated that is in compliance with their growth plan. They don't
intend to get as large as Bellingham.
Hoag stated the people within the city are not aware the City of Sumas is
allocating the water down to zero for 20 years or that this plant is getting three
times the amount planned for any other growth. The citizens have a right to know
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 17
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that. It is their water. They also have not been told that the peak water demand
will exceed the water right. Lastly, agencies do not have discretionary power to
deny something based on the public good. That power lies with the legislators. All
the agencies can do is make sure no rules or laws are broken. She spoke with the
DOE person who is reviewing this application for EFSEC. That person said that if
they don't break any rules and they don't break any laws, they get their permit. If
the mayor is relying on EFSEC to protect him, then his faith is misplaced. That is
not their job.
Peterson questioned whether Hoag believed that the state's standards on air
emissions, for example, are there to protect the people.
Hoag stated they are intended to help reduce the level of air pollution in the
state and in the country, but they are not aimed at a site -by -site, specific question
of whether a site should go in or if it would hurt the residents. Some of the
pollutants are not safe at any level, but there are levels allowed by the state
because they understand there are certain things one has to do in life, and some of
those things have negative repercussions. However, if there is something one
doesn't need to do, then there is no reason to allow any of those toxins to be
produced.
Peterson stated the EFSEC process is not complete. They are planning more
meetings and are coming back to Sumas. If there are questions and concerns, that
is the time to address them. It is now an open question. He has not heard
anything that disturbs him.
Dawson stated the County, City of Bellingham, Public Utility District, and the
tribes are all getting together. They are going to evaluate the water rights on the
Nooksack River. There is a feeling that the water rights are over - allocated and that
farmers are using water without valid water rights. Their water comes from the
river, Lake Whatcom, and various aquifers in the county. If it is true that the
Nooksack River water is over - allocated, and that these farmers have to close shop,
they are going to be looking elsewhere for water. They can't look to Canada for
import. She stated that if Peterson's aquifer was available, he would have to make
a decision between supplying farmers and supplying industry. She questioned
which user his residents would want to be supplied.
Peterson stated they are already supplying farmers, residents, and industrial
users. They have two rural water districts for which they supply water, who supply
the dairies. The county needs both industry and farmers. If they could get water
rights for the aquifer, they would love to supply water for both. He would hate to
have to pick one or another. They are not out of balance on their allocations. They
should let EFSEC go through the process, without any outside interference.
Brenner stated no one is accusing him of shorting anyone of water. However,
if he gets away without having to make those tough decisions in the next ten to
fifteen years, he will be the only one in the State of Washington. That is exactly
what is going to happen. At some point, he is going to have to make that decision.
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 18
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He is going to have to choose between farmers, industry, and residential use. It
frightens her that he would go down to a zero water right allocation within 20
years, and he is expecting something different to happen in the future that would
provide more water rights. They can't afford to assume that.
Peterson stated water is a nervous question. The City of Lynden has already
used their water rights, and gone beyond them. That can't be ignored. The entire
question of water needs to be addressed. He will be standing in the front row to
address it and work it out.
Hoag questioned Peterson's reference to let the process work without outside
interference. Peterson stated arguments should be based on scientific data, not gut
feelings. If there are questions, they should take them to EFSEC and demand an
answer. The meetings are open and scheduled.
Hoag explained that she receives a lot of concerns about IKO Pacific Inc. in
Sumas. She questioned whether it was true the people were told that company
would not be a problem. Peterson stated he was told that also. There is a problem
with odor and noise, both of which are being addressed. The Northwest Air
Pollution Authority ( NWAPA) is involved. The plant has said it will reconcile the
situation.
Hoag questioned whether the City of Sumas has received a tremendous
number of complaints. Peterson stated that was true.
Hoag stated NWAPA said they've had more complaints about this company
anything they can remember. She is on the NWAPA board. She was told that they
are within their permit. Just because a company says there will not be a problem,
and because agencies issues a permit, it doesn't mean there won't be a problem.
In addition, during the scoping meeting, Sumas Energy 2 said they will build the
lines to accommodate 230 kilovolts, and at this point they will only be installing
transformers and insulators for 115 kilovolts. She didn't see why a company would
plan on putting in that kind of infrastructure unless they plan on running greater
power in the future. It is important for the councilmembers to look at because the
ordinance limits it to 115 kilovolts. However, they are running more amperage
than would typically be run on a 115 - kilovolt line. Because the company stated
they are planning on poles that will accommodate 230 kilovolts, they are looking at
creating a new power corridor.
Nelson questioned what the primary news source is for the City of Sumas.
Peterson stated the Lynden Tribute and the Bellingham Herald are the news
sources.
Nelson questioned whether adequate information has been given out. He
has contacted people in the area that weren't aware of this meeting. Peterson
stated that anyone that has any interest in what is happening in the world were
aware of this meeting. Most people at that end of the county are aware of the
cogeneration plant.
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Nelson questioned whether the Lynden Tribune has addressed the plant.
Peterson stated the Lynden Tribune ran a large editorial in favor of the plant.
Nelson questioned whether there was discussion of the pollutants. Peterson
stated there has been at the open meetings.
Hoag stated that the editorial was an editorial and not based on fact.
Several of the statements were false. She tried to contact the person who wrote
the editorial to correct the statements, but no one returned her call. There have
been two articles in the Bellingham Herald early on in the process. The articles
stated that there is a proposed plant and discussed how many jobs it would create.
It didn't address the emissions, the power lines, and all the impacts.
Nelson questioned whether an EIS has been done.
Hoag stated an EIS is due in a week. The information they've been
discussing is from the application, based on what their consultants prepared.
Nelson questioned whether that is what the EIS will be based on.
Hoag stated she didn't know precisely.
Peterson stated EFSEC has already held several meetings, and there will be
more. It is not a closed issue at this point.
Jeff Margolis, 5455 Potter Road, Deming, stated he was concerned about
the ramifications of the plant. Originally, the plant was to serve Canada. Water
would be shipped in to the plant, and a gas line would go to the plant. He
questioned why they would want to put the plant here to serve the lower mainland
if they are going to ship in the water and gas to run it. Now, the do not plan to
ship in the gas or the water.
Hoag stated they are shipping in the gas.
Margolis questioned why there is talk about the oil storage tank.
Hoag stated it is an oil storage tank because the gas is not guaranteed to be
uninterrupted. They project the possibility of burning diesel oil for up to 15 days
per year. They plan to put in a 2.5 million - gallon oil tank to supply the oil.
(Clerk's Note: End of tape two, side A.)
Margolis stated this tank is bigger than any tank known to the State of
Washington. The governor did not allow a tank of that capacity in another part of
the state. He is concerned about the tank and the aquifer, and what this is all
about. He questioned whether the County has a need for more electricity. If so, he
assumed the people of Whatcom County would be petitioning electric utilities to find
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ways to bring more electricity to the county. That is not what is happening. He
would first look at the airport in the Chilliwack /Abbottsford area. He was curious to
scope out the significance of this airport and what is happening in the lower
mainland to create a need for this electricity. The airport is to serve Canada and
this region. This is a global facility that brings in cargo from around the world. He
questioned the 20 -year program for the airport. His point is that he questions how
much is being filled in due to this kind of cargo facility. Putting in this plant would
effectively downzone the area because no one would want to live there. This
airport will have support facilities and warehouses. He was concerned about the
impact the plant would have on zoning. Rezoning most of that area to industrial
areas would be a choice the County would have to make.
Hoag stated this is in the jurisdiction of the City of Sumas.
Margolis stated it will overflow.
Michael DiSpigno, 1351 Olivia Court, stated he is a consulting engineer with
David Evans and Associates. He worked on the water supply plan for the City of
Sumas. Because of that work, Sumas Energy 2 has hired him to investigate the
water supply system to their facility. Due to the lack of time left in this meeting, he
would be available afterwards to answer any questions.
Warren Hanson, 6530 Timberman Lane, Ferndale, stated he's been to many
meetings in which people ramble on. No effort is made to ascertain how many
people want to speak. The people at the last don't get enough time to speak. All
the councilmembers had to do is to ask how many people want to speak, and then
portion the time accordingly.
Hoag stated there was a sign up sheet, but only four people signed up.
Hanson stated he heard reference to water being divided among the farmers
and the industrial uses. He questioned where the fish fit in. Enough is enough. In
this county, they've accepted a reasonable amount of polluting industry. Canada
does not even treat their sewage properly in Victoria. There have been effects of
that and industry on the salmon and the people who are dependent upon fishing.
He was a commercial fisherman, but has had to return to longshoring and other
work to get along. He stood up for the Lake Whatcom watershed in the early
1970s. There are problems there now because people did not realize the problem.
They've accepted enough problems in this county and enough population growth.
They should not count on the idea to cure everything. People should be good
stewards of this land.
Irwin Noteboom stated that the plant is proposing to use inexpensive
Canadian gas. The plant is being situated in Sumas to ship the electricity
generated back to Abbottsford. He questioned why this plant is being situated in
Sumas.
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Hoag stated the hearing would be continued to the evening meeting before
the full Council.
ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 12:00 p.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
ATTEST:
Dana Brown - Davis, Council Clerk
WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
Dan McShane, Committee Chair
Natural Resources Committee, 3/7/2000, Page 22