HomeMy WebLinkAboutFinance September 12 20001
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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Finance and Administrative Services Committee
September 12, 2000
The meeting was called to order at 12:00 p.m. by Committee Chair L. Ward
Nelson in the Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
Also Present:
Sam Crawford
Robert Imhof
Absent:
None
COMMITTEE DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL
1. WHATCOM CHIEF FERRY INSURANCE RENEWAL 9/30/00 — 9/30/01
(AB2000 -307)
Imhof moved to recommend approval.
Brenner asked for a presentation on the changing ferry schedule. She is
getting a lot of complaints. She asked for a presentation at the next Public Works
Committee meeting.
Motion carried unanimously.
2. RISK POOL GENERAL LIABILITY INSURANCE RENEWAL 10/1/00 —
10 /01 /01 (AB2000 -308)
Nelson moved to recommend approval.
Brenner stated they need a presentation in Public Works on this item. Some
on the Council don't know what coverage the County has. The Risk Pool fellow is
willing to do a presentation. They need to understand what the insurance covers
and what it doesn't cover. There was an issue of possible liability.
Dewey Desler, Deputy Administrator, stated the administration is doing a
comprehensive review of its insurance coverages and the cost benefits for the
Council. They hope to have it prepared later on this fall. They can present it in
either the Council of the Whole or Finance Committee.
Brenner asked that someone from the Risk Pool attend.
Desler stated this is a matter that would take an hour and a half or so.
Motion carried unanimously.
3. DISCUSSION REGARDING PUBLIC, EDUCATIONAL, AND
GOVERNMENTAL TELEVISION ACCESS (AB2000 -131)
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 1
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Nelson stated Councilmember Brenner has had meetings with the City of
Bellingham. The concern is the notification the County received that, as of August
1, they were discontinuing access. That was not his understanding of the County's
contract for public access with TCI.
George Reid, Information Services Manager, stated there was a letter from
the City dated August 30. He's heard nothing since then.
Nelson questioned whether the County is currently doing broadcasts of the
Council meetings.
Lynn Barton, video producer, stated she didn't know if the County's tapes are
being broadcast.
Reid stated Ms. Barton was taking tapes to the City of Bellingham, who
broadcast the last one. The City wanted to charge the County to do that. They are
going to reduce their charges, but he hasn't seen anything in writing. He instructed
Ms. Barton to take the tape to the City after she finishes a tape.
Nelson asked what the County is doing regarding public access. Reid stated
the County is waiting for a response to Mr. Desler's letter of response to Mr.
Hudson. In the meantime, they will continue to take the tapes to the City.
Brenner stated she attended the meeting with Dan Crocker. The County
contract is that the service continues. Mr. Crocker stated they wouldn't have the
place where people can go to work on their shows. Everything else would be the
same. It is in the contract. She suggested that if they don't broadcast, the County
should proceed with legal action.
Nelson asked to be kept informed on the process or lack thereof. The public
was concerned about the letter that went out.
4. ORDINANCE AMENDING THE 2000 BUDGET, REQUEST #10 (AB2000-
302)
Imhof moved to recommend approval and questioned the position control is
a position they are adding mid -year or one that didn't get added.
Chuck Benjamin, Health and Human Services Director, stated it is an addition
of a new full -time equivalent (FTE) employee.
Imhof questioned whether the money was grant money. Benjamin stated it
is. Like all such positions, if the grant funding goes away, the position would go
away. It is a partnership between the Whatcom County Health and Human
Services, St. Joseph's Hospital, the Whatcom Dental Society, the Washington State
Medical Assistance Administration, and the Washington Dental Service Foundation.
It is a collaborative effort to reach children and babies in need of dental care for
low- income families.
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 2
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Brenner stated she thought it is a wonderful program and this is the stuff the
County should be doing to take care of people.
Nelson stated adults also need dental care.
Benjamin stated there is another grant they applied for that would have
coordinated getting dental care needs children with parental involvement. They
didn't get that funding. There is a need for adult dental care.
Nelson discussed the conservation futures item.
Imhof stated they talked about this a month and a half ago. This is the
culmination of a lot of hard work by many people. This is what they are trying to
do in the watershed; to remove chunks of land and get easements to prevent
development. This is an ongoing program the County has had to do this. He
thanked the people for their hard work.
Rand Jack, Whatcom County Land Trust, stated the Stimpson family owns a
140 acre parcel between Geneva and Sudden Valley that abuts Trillium land and the
state Department of Natural Resources (DNR) land. The Trillium land is 80 acres.
The Land Trust was approached a year ago. There are seven Stimpson siblings who
are joint owners. The Stimpson siblings asked if the Land Trust would be interested
in doing a gift transaction with the family. The Land Trust has been discussing this
with the family members since then. The family members indicated their intention
to gift 120 acres and reserving 20 acres. The Land Trust entered into an option
with Trillium to purchase 80 acres for $450,000. The Land Trust has $220,000 to
contribute toward that purchase; they are $230,000 short. The DNR land is a
natural resource conservation area, which has special status under DNR
management. The legislature appropriated money to buy the 140 acres out of the
trust management and put it in conservation status. The DNR land has the last
remaining lowland old growth forest in the watershed. They envision the three
properties being managed as a public area that would allow for the priorities of
protecting the watershed, the natural resource values of property, and allow public
use of the property. The management structure has to be worked out. They've
had preliminary discussion with DNR, who is enthused about the land being
managed as a unit. It is appropriate, given the land's proximity to the major
population density nearby.
Before the Council is a proposal that the Land Trust would gain ownership of
the Trillium land and 120 acres of Stimpson property, for a total of 200 acres in the
watershed. The Land Trust proposes to sell to the County a conservation easement
that would guarantee the perpetual protection of Stimpson /Trillium properties to
protect water quality in the watershed. They also propose a trail easement for the
County. The Land Trust would take $500,000, put $230,000 to the Trillium
property. The remaining $270,000 would be used to build the trail and amenities
on the property at the direction of County Parks Department. The remaining
$200,000 would go in a trust fund for stewardship and care for the trail and
amenities. The County would pay the Land Trust $500,000, but the money would
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 3
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complete the purchase of the Trillium property and install facilities so there is no
cost in the future to the County. The County is getting de facto use of 200 acres,
and even 340 acres to protect water quality and for public recreation compatible
with protecting that watershed.
Crawford questioned whether the Stimpsons are asking for any money. Jack
stated no.
Crawford asked if the Stimpsons have said they will do the donation. Jack
stated they have stated their intent to do the donation. They have not made a final
commitment.
Nelson asked what would be different if the County purchased the 80 acres,
with the Land Trust having the Stimpson property and made arrangements with the
DNR. Jack stated they would love that, because they could keep their $220,000.
This is essentially what they are doing.
Nelson questioned who owns the property. Jack stated the Land Trust owns
the property, and the County has two perpetual easements to: 1) protect the water
quality in the watershed, and 2) use the easement for recreational purposes.
Brenner stated she wants to support this transaction, but she had questions.
When they did the previous property purchase, there was good information on the
breakdown of the value of the timber. She questioned the zoning of this property.
Jack stated it is Rural Forestry (RF).
Brenner stated the values in the Rural Forestry zone of the Stimpson
property seemed to be very expensive. She hoped that the people working with
the County are compromising and the County is not paying top dollar. Otherwise it
is not a donation. It is an outright purchase at market value.
Imhof stated the lumber is worth twice that amount.
Jack stated the Stimpson's are donating the property. They are not getting a
penny.
Brenner stated the Trillium property was being sold for about $5,600 per
acre. She asked for how much Rural Forestry land generally sells per acre.
McShane stated it is a lot. In similar settings, 20 acres are going for
$300,000 to $500,000.
Roger DeSpain, Parks Department Director, stated he did an appraisal on the
Trillium property. It is worth twice what is being offered.
Jack stated Trillium had a written offer to purchase the property by a
business for this amount. Trillium felt the property was worth almost twice as
much, and chose to sell the property to the Land Trust instead.
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 4
1 Brenner stated she liked the idea of purchasing a permanent trail and
2 conservation easement. The language says $500,000 is to purchase the property.
3 She liked the Land Trust owning the property and the County owning the easement.
4 The language was confusing.
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6 Jack stated $230,00 is to complete the purchase. It is a way of taking
7 money from the Conservation Futures Funds and using it for trail maintenance.
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9 Crawford questioned who has liability if someone is hurt on the trail.
10 DeSpain stated the County is liable. The County takes that responsibility as they do
11 in every park. They have to follow standards when creating the trail.
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13 Nelson stated there is usually an agreement document. He was supportive of
14 the idea, but wanted to see the agreement. He questioned whether this would
15 come back to the Council. Jack stated the Council is entrusting the County with the
16 terms. One of the reasons that things have become compressed is because he is
17 leaving for Nepal on Saturday. For this to work, they have to get far down the
18 road. The Stimpson family members have scattered around the U.S.
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20 Nelson asked if they are going to see an agreement. Jack stated he could
21 provide the documents.
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23 Nelson asked if this is a preliminary approval. Jack stated no, they are
24 asking for approval.
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26 Nelson stated it is a better use of the money than what the City will get out
27 what they are doing with their water bills. The County is getting a large chunk of
28 land in reserve. Jack stated they've done deals before and there is a history
29 between the County and the Land Trust. The Land Trust knows that if they don't do
30 it right, they won't get the project. It is a great deal.
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32 Crawford suggested improvements that include a parking area on Lake
33 Louise Road. Jack stated that is part of the provision.
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35 Crawford asked if the southern border is bordering Sudden Valley. Access
36 there for residents of Sudden Valley would be wonderful. Jack stated he had
37 preliminary conversations with Sudden Valley. Access from that side is contingent
38 on Sudden Valley providing a place to park. They would like to have a loop trail
39 with an entrance on both ends. Sudden Valley has to be willing to cooperate.
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41 Dawson expressed a concern about selective thinning. This only addresses
42 clearcutting or forest practices that would affect water quality. Selective thinning
43 isn't a part of that. She is interested to see that selective thinning is a part of this.
44 A healthy forest is dependent on selective thinning here and there. It would not be
45 incompatible with this use. She questioned where funds would go to if they
46 selective log the property. Jack stated the conservation easement is the reverse of
47 the normal position of the Land Trust. They are giving up to the County the rights
48 and property that they would own. The rights they give up are on the issue of
49 forestry. They are giving up three rights, to subdivide property, construct buildings
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 5
1 and improvements except for as provided for in the trail easement, and clear cut all
2 or part of reserve or engage in other forest practices that affect the water quality.
3 The Land Trust is giving up those rights. Any other rights continue on with the
4 property and are held by the Land Trust.
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6 Dawson stated the decision to selective log belongs to the Land Trust, not
7 the County. If the County thinks the land needs to be selectively logged, it can't do
8 that.
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10 Crawford stated the County doesn't own the trees.
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12 Dawson stated someone suggested that the County should purchase the
13 Trillium property outright. That may give the County more control. DeSpain stated
14 the problem with that is they would not have any dollars coming back to the County
15 for maintenance and operation of the land. This is the mechanism that allows the
16 maintenance and operation of the land. A problem with conservation futures is
17 there are dollars to acquire land, but they don't have dollars to maintain the land.
18 There has been several attempts by the legislature to change that and allow monies
19 to go to maintenance. Through this, they provide money for maintenance and
20 operation and make it work.
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22 Dawson stated the County would own the trees. DeSpain stated the Trillium
23 property is only 80 acres, and they want to do the larger reserve. The way DNR is
24 structured, they are not going to log the land. That is how they got the money
25 from the legislature to set the property aside. There are wetlands and water
26 quality to be protected.
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28 Brenner stated she liked the concept, but it puts the councilmembers in a
29 difficult position when they don't have all the information. Some people don't like
30 the idea. She needs the information to answer concerns. There is no reason to not
31 trust the Land Trust, but the councilmembers should get the material. She
32 questioned why the County has the maintenance responsibility and liability, while
33 the Land Trust owns it. She questioned why the County would not own it. Jack
34 stated the Stimpsons want to give their property to the Land trust. The County
35 gets the use as if the County purchased it. In addition, the County gets the use of
36 the Trillium property, someone else pays for building the trail, and the County gets
37 $200,000 in a perpetual fund to take care of the property.
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39 Nelson stated the County is giving $500,000. The County are paying the
40 Land Trust to complete the purchase of the Trillium property, the trail signs, and
41 the endowment fund. Jack stated they are obtaining the use of a piece of property
42 valued over $2 million.
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44 Nelson they are getting County use of $1.3 million worth of property. Jack
45 stated that is just the Stimpson property.
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47 Nelson stated it includes the Trillium property. Jack stated the total property
48 is worth over $2 million. The County is getting the use of the property and is
49 helping the Land Trust purchase the property.
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 6
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Nelson stated it is well and good. It is positive for the watershed, and the
community wants it. However, the Council doesn't have good information to make
a decision. Jack stated that was because a number of different parties are involved
and it is time critical.
DeSpain stated the amount of time Mr. Jack spent on this project is
unbelievable. Bringing together seven siblings across the country is a big task.
This project is a onetime shot.
Crawford spoke in favor of the motion. It is a great idea.
Imhof stated the Council has worked with both DeSpain and Jack before.
They only do an impeccable job. He supports it 100 percent.
Brenner stated it is not about how hard Jack works. She would support the
project, but doesn't want to see another project without a draft contract and value
breakdowns. It is not fair to the Council. It is not about trust. She wants the
information up front so she can speak to it with the public who want information.
This is her job.
Dawson stated she supported the concept, but wouldn't vote for it without a
contract at the evening meeting.
Jack stated he would provide a draft contract.
Brenner asked what would happen if the Stimpsons pulled out. Jack stated
nothing would happen.
Motion to approve the supplemental budget carried unanimously.
COUNCIL "CONSENT AGENDA" ITEM
1. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION FOR THE EXECUTIVE TO AWARD BID #00-
74 TO THE LOWEST RESPONSIVE BIDDER, PACIFIC NORTH
EQUIPMENT, TO PURCHASE A REPLACEMENT ARTICULATED WHEEL
LOADER FOR USE BY WHATCOM COUNTY PUBLIC WORKS
MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF $132,219.77
(AB2000 -309)
Nelson moved to recommend approval.
Brenner stated the Council used to get paperwork about how often the old
equipment was used, its age, and other information. She would like that
information in the future. She questioned the amount of use now compared to ten
years ago. She didn't know anything about this equipment.
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 7
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Mary Green, Equipment Rental Division, stated the unit is 23 years old. It is
a 966 Cat they are replacing. It is an articulated wheel loader being replaced with
a smaller unit. The replacement schedule was 15 years. It paid for itself in 15
years. The unit has 15,000 hours. They are asking for a smaller unit. In five
gravel pits, they've stockpiled gravel. The loaders are used just as much, only
differently. They don't mine anymore, only stockpile. The loader has a quick
change for a V snowplow and scales to weigh the gravel.
Crawford questioned whether she was happy with the maker of this vehicle.
He also questioned why the sales tax varies. Green stated they took the lowest,
most responsive bidder, by law. They did a demo of the equipment. It is
adequate. Sales tax varies to where it is at in the state.
Imhof moved to recommend approval.
Brenner stated that if it does the scope of work, it is fine. It doesn't matter if
there are different makers.
Motion carried unanimously.
2. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION FOR THE EXECUTIVE TO ENTER INTO AN
INTERAGENCY WORK ORDER AMENDMENT BETWEEN WHATCOM
COUNTY HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES AND THE DIVISION OF
ALCOHOL & SUBSTANCE ABUSE (DASA) TO PROVIDE COMMUNITY
ALCOHOL AND DRUG SERVICES AND CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY
PREVENTION SERVICES TO PREGNANT AND PARENTING WOMEN, IN
THE AMENDMENT AMOUNT OF $120,000 FOR A TOTAL AMENDED
CONTRACT AMOUNT OF $2,367,727 (AB2000 -310)
Nelson moved to recommend approval.
Motion carried unanimously.
3. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION FOR THE EXECUTIVE TO ENTER INTO A
CONTRACT AMENDMENT BETWEEN WHATCOM COUNTY HEALTH AND
HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT AND CASCADE VOCATIONAL
SERVICES — GROUP EMPLOYMENT TO PROVIDE PLACEMENT, ON -THE-
JOB TRAINING, AND FOLLOW -UP SERVICES OF SUPERVISED
EMPLOYMENT IN COMMUNITY SETTINGS FOR GROUPS OF WORKERS
WITH DISABILITIES, IN THE AMENDED AMOUNT OF $17,282, FOR A
TOTAL CONTRACT AMENDED AMOUNT OF $104,078 (AB2000 -311)
Imhof moved to recommend approval.
Chuck Benjamin, Health and Human Services Director, stated the increase is
$17,402. The total amount remains the same.
Motion carried unanimously.
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 8
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4. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION FOR THE EXECUTIVE TO ENTER INTO A
CONTRACT AMENDMENT BETWEEN WHATCOM COUNTY PUBLIC
WORKS RIVER AND FLOOD SECTION AND PHILIP WILLIAMS &
ASSOCIATES TO PROVIDE COASTAL HYDRAULIC ANALYSIS AND
FLOODPLAIN MAPPING OF SANDY POINT, IN ACCORDANCE WITH
FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA) GUIDELINES,
IN THE AMENDMENT AMOUNT OF $96,447 FOR A TOTAL CONTRACT
AMENDED AMOUNT OF $103,236 (AB2000 -312)
Imhof moved to recommend approval.
McShane asked about the bathymetric survey of the underwater mound. He
questioned the time of year it would be done, or if the mound moves around.
Paula Cooper, Special Projects Manager, stated she didn't have the answer.
Philip Williams and Associates was referred to the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) as the guru of coastal floodplain mapping. FEMA is hiring them to
write guidelines for coastal floodplain mapping in the Northwest. He is not an
expert on that issue.
Nelson questioned whether McShane had significant concerns about the
contract.
McShane stated he did not. It was more of a comment than a concern. He
has some familiarity with that mound.
(Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side A.)
McShane stated he did not have enough expertise to know whether the
mound plays a role in erosion. There are different erosion patterns that occur in
the vicinity of the mound during different times of the year.
Dawson stated it is not to deal with erosion, only flooding.
McShane stated there are some erosion considerations. He asked about task
11. He questioned where the locations that may experience over - topping are.
Cooper stated she would show them on a topographic map.
Motion carried unanimously.
S. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION FOR THE EXECUTIVE TO ENTER INTO AN
AGREEMENT, IF APPROVED IN SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET REQUEST
#10, WITH THE WHATCOM LAND TRUST TO PURCHASE A PERMANENT
TRAIL AND CONSERVATION EASEMENT OVER 200 ACRES IN THE
LAKE WHATCOM WATERSHED CATHERINE AND EDWARD STIMPSON
NATURE RESERVE, UTILIZING CONSERVATION FUTURE FUNDS NOT
TO EXCEED $500,000 (AB2000 -313)
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 9
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Rand Jack, Whatcom County Land Trust, submitted the draft contract
documents. If anyone has questions, he would answer them in the afternoon.
Roger DeSpain, Parks Department Director, stated he would fax the appraisal
to the councilmembers.
Nelson moved to recommend approval.
Motion carried unanimously.
6. REQUEST AUTHORIZATION FOR THE EXECUTIVE TO ENTER INTO A
PROJECT GRANT AGREEMENT, IF APPROVED IN SUPPLEMENTAL
BUDGET REQUEST #10, BETWEEN WHATCOM COUNTY HEALTH AND
HUMAN SERVICES DEPARTMENT AND WASHINGTON DENTAL
SERVICE FOUNDATION (WSDF) TO PROVIDE DENTAL CARE FOR LOW
INCOME INDIVIDUALS IN OUR COMMUNITY IN THE AGREEMENT
AMOUNT OF $45,000 (AB2000 -314)
Imhof moved to recommend approval.
Motion carried unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
McShane stated the Council would get a presentation from Washington
State Senator Paul Shin regarding establishing a sister county relationship
between Whatcom County and Kanghwa County, Republic of Korea. George
Drake, a Korean War veteran, wanted to present to the Council at open session. It
might be good for him to speak to the Finance Committee also.
George Drake stated the County Executive is going to Korea. Fifty years
ago, over 500 young men from Whatcom County went to Korea to fight. They
dedicated two to three years of their lives to defend democracy in Korea. Twenty -
two of those individuals lost their lives to insure that there would be commerce in
Korea today. One of them, Mike Walters, was a graduate from Bellingham High
School and a prisoner of war. He was missing in action and his body was never
retrieved. He was the only one of the 22 that was a prisoner of war. It would be
very appropriate that the County Executive, as a basis for commercial operations,
recognize that this wouldn't occur without the citizens' giving their lives to defend
that country. He has asked Mr. Kremen for a donation for a memorial, in the form
of two stone lanterns to be put in Big Rock Garden Park, to honor those citizens. It
is the 50th anniversary of the beginning of the Korean War. The mother of Mike
Walters is in her 90's. It is the first time in Whatcom County anyone in Whatcom
County officially expressed thanks that her son died defending democracy in Korea
and the fact that her son's body was never returned. She is looking forward to this
memorial. He called on the County Council to authorize the County Executive to
look for two lanterns and place them in the Big Rock Park, where there is a very
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 10
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Japanese /Asian ambiance. There is a collection of sculptures that honor local
heroes from Whatcom County.
Brenner stated it is a great idea. She liked the idea of honoring the people.
Ten thousand dollars is a lot of money. She questioned whether they could spend
$7,500 on one nice lantern that does both. Drake stated the lanterns are made in
Korea. There was an exhibit 10 years ago. The wholesale cost ranged from $3,000
to $20,000. It is an indignity to go cheaper. They differentiate the two because
there is a difference between the 22 individuals who died. They should recognize
them specifically with their own memorial. The hundreds are nameless because no
one kept a record. Ten thousand dollars is very cheap. He would pay the
difference.
Brenner stated she felt she was being accused of something. She was saying
they would spend more on a lantern, not less. She asked if the $10,000 is per
lantern. Drake stated it is for both. They could get beautiful lanterns for $7,500.
Nelson stated Big Rock Garden Park is in the City of Bellingham, and
questioned whether he approached the City Council. Drake stated he is working
with the City Council. The only records are of people from the County. The sister
relationship is one with the County.
Nelson stated the Mayor of Bellingham is also going.
McShane stated this trip to Korea is the first he's heard of it. Most counties
prominently display veteran memorials. Whatcom County is out of step with other
communities. Tonight when Mr. Shin makes his presentation, they should think
about how they want to go about doing that.
Brenner discussed the receipt of information regarding the Public
Employee's Retirement System (PERS) (AB2000 -145). The County would
save money if they do it before September 25. There isn't another Council meeting
until September 26.
Nelson questioned what the administration needs from councilmembers.
Dewey Desler, Deputy Administrator, stated they have all the information
they need from the councilmembers. The administration is trying to get
information from the retirement system to get the most accurate numbers. They
are actively working on that. He would have a memo to the councilmembers by
Friday. It would be an introduction item for the next Council meeting. The issue is
that the employer's share is about $24,000 with accrued interest. He would
support it.
Brenner stated they haven't heard any controversy on the issue. She
questioned whether they could authorize it on the budget supplement.
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 11
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Imhof stated they couldn't authorize it now because they don't know how
much the amount of the employer's portion would be.
Desler stated the material didn't have all the information on the employee's
portion. He's asked for more information from the Human Resources Division.
They want to carry forward with this.
ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 12:57 p.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
ATTEST:
Dana Brown - Davis, Council Clerk
WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
L. Ward Nelson, Committee Chair
Finance and Administrative Services Committee, 9/12/2000, Page 12