Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources September 25 20011 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL Natural Resources Committee September 25, 2001 The meeting was called to order at 9:30 a.m. by Committee Chair Dan McShane in the Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington. Also Present: Absent: L. Ward Nelson Connie Hoag COMMITTEE DISCUSSION 1. ORDINANCE AMENDING WHATCOM COUNTY CODE, TITLE 20, RELATING TO NONCONFORMING SURFACE MINES AND SURFACE MINING IN RURAL, AGRICULTURAL, RURAL FORESTRY, AND COMMERCIAL FORESTRY ZONES (AB2000 -301) Nelson stated that if they begin to amend this ordinance, they may create more problems than is necessary. Stay with the ordinance that currently exists unless it would create a huge problem. Address the terraces through the Comprehensive Plan process. He doesn't want to work on these issues piecemeal. McShane questioned whether Councilmember Nelson would be interested in dropping the acreage limit for mining knolls and ridges. Nelson stated it is an option. Look at the major issues. One major issue is the acreage limitation. Second is the idea of restoration, which they still haven't formalized how that would be funded and reviewed. Matt Aamot, Senior Planner, stated that the Conservation District recommended a science -based method, but staff hasn't received direction to pursue that method. There was discussion of creating a study site. Nelson stated that if the Council adopts the ordinance, the County would still not have a restoration program. Aamot stated there are some standards for reclamation. As far as studying the impacts of mining on productivity of the soil, they have not done that. Nelson stated other issues are about the terrace language and limiting mining restrictions. McShane stated the term "terraces' was not in the original language at all. The Planning Commission added it. Nelson stated they are dealing with an acreage limitation that did not exist other than under the State Department of Natural Resources (DNR) permitting process. He asked if restoration was required in the agricultural zone in the Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 previous ordinance. Aamot stated there are reclamation requirements currently in the agricultural zone. Nelson stated reclamation is an issue in forestry and non - agricultural zones. Aamot stated the issue is the effectiveness of reclaimed land in agricultural zones. Nelson stated they need more information on the effectiveness. McShane stated the effectiveness is a valid issue. He doesn't know the answer. There has been mining on knolls and ridges already, and there has been reclamation already. The Council has heard mixed opinions on the success of reclamation. That makes no difference on the knoll and ridge issue. If the committee focuses on the agricultural zone, the only change is suggested language that the surface mine shall not exceed three acres at one time and must be for enhancement. The purpose is to show that the miner /farmer is actually following the reclamation plan. No changes are suggested to that section. The only section to change is the acreage allowed for mining at any given time. Nelson stated the farms he looked at had knolls and ridges larger than three acres. The purpose is for irrigation and addressing equipment danger. The knolls and ridges he looked at would be more than three acres. They need to have some flexibility so a farmer can repair his fields to make them safer and more productive. McShane stated he agreed with increasing the size limitation. Aamot stated that if mining is over three acres, a DNR permit kicks in. Nelson stated he wouldn't change that. Address the specific concern. If the concern is that restoration isn't occurring, then address that issue. If the concern is that an owner is using his or her lands for mineral extraction, then address that issue. McShane questioned whether the rules under farm enhancement, which is what this issue is about, would be applicable to farm enhancement practices if the rules had a limitation on mining in the rural zone. Aamot stated it would not be applicable. They are two separate issues. It would not be applicable to farm enhancement practices. There is no limitation that farm enhancement in the agricultural zone cannot do three acres, and then three acres more. Nelson stated the farmers he talked to did not have a concern on the limitation. They understand the DNR process and the permitting. The farmers also agree that there are people who don't do a good job with reclamation. They need to have assistance with reclamation. If they intend to have teeth in the reclamation process, they need to go through that process. Dawson questioned whether a farmer avoids having to get a DNR permit if he or she only mines three acres at a time. McShane stated that is correct. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 Dawson questioned whether there is a proposal to limit mining to six acres. Nelson stated that was one proposal from the Agricultural Advisory Committee. McShane stated that isn't something he is going to suggest for farm enhancement. The Council can't determine how much of a knoll or ridge needs to be removed. Nelson asked if they could administer section twelve. Aamot stated they do consult with the Conservation District on the reclamation plans. There are standards in the code. Nelson asked the original problem. Aamot stated the Land Use Division initiated this issue. There was concern about land use conflicts in areas that were not designated for mineral resource extraction. The agricultural soil issue is a concern. Nelson asked if leaving it as it is would still allow the farmer to use his or her acreage and protect against overzealous mining in other areas while going around the MRL process. McShane stated they have to amend the ordinance to protect against overzealous mining. Councilmember Nelson's concern is with the agricultural issue. There is no definition of "terraces" in the Comprehensive Plan. Nelson stated that with no definition in the Comprehensive Plan, they could injure the process. If "terraces" are a concern, create a definition through the Comprehensive Plan amendment process, then clarify specifically what would and would not be allowed. McShane stated the language approved by the Planning Commission was to create a mining limit of three acres at one time. Nelson stated that is reflective of the DNR process. He concurred with that recommendation. His concern is with the total limitation. McShane agreed. (Clerk's Note: Councilmember Crawford arrived.) McShane stated they should discuss Council packet page 18, item nine. He recommended that the language be changed, "The s .Ffaee Fnine s"," net exee three acres at any one tome. Prier to mining additional acreage, reclarnatien shall A cumulative maximum of three acres may be mined within the outer boundary of the parcels that existed at the time of the adoption of this amendment. The intent of this provision is to prevent multiple conditional use permits for three - acre subsurface mines on a single parcel, and prevent lots that were divided from a Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 parent parcel after adoption of this amendment, from each having a three -acre surface mine." The language came from the staff recommendation. It was what drove this whole proposal, not the agricultural concern. This proposal came up because of the concern of having a lot of the non -DNR reclamation plan pits. Nelson asked if it would impact rural forestry. Aamot stated rural forestry and commercial forestry references the rural zone. They can easily get around that by creating an exception. Nelson stated they don't want large parcels outside of the MRL process, but forestry is like agriculture. They may need to allow extraction for road construction and other safety issues. Aamot stated a different clause relates to forest practices. If one is mining is accessory, there is an exemption. Nelson questioned whether road construction in forestry zones needs to allow more than three acres. Aamot stated it falls into a different category. Nelson asked if there is a three -acre limitation if the material is for their own use. Aamot stated there is not a limitation. It is considered a forest practice. This ordinance is for mining for a commercial use. Nelson stated he was comfortable with McShane's recommended language. McShane moved to insert the staff language into section nine, Council packet page 18. "(9) The surface n9ine shall not exceed thFee acres at any one tome. Prier tome. to mining additienal acreage, reclamatien shall be accomplished se that the un A cumulative maximum of three acres may be mined within the outer boundary of the parcels that existed at the time of the adoption of this amendment. The intent of this provision is to prevent multiple conditional use permits for three -acre surface mines on a single parcel, and prevent lots that were divided from a parent parcel after adoption of this amendment from each having a three -acre surface mine." Motion carried unanimously. Aamot asked if the committee is limiting mining to three acres at a time in commercial forestry and rural forestry zones. Nelson asked staff if they've had a problem in the past with "pac -man" mining in rural and commercial forestry areas. Aamot stated only one parcel was permitted, but it was not mined. McShane moved to include this language in the rural forestry zone as well. Nelson questioned whether they need to look at those areas in the MRL process. Aamot stated they do. also. Nelson suggested including the language in the commercial forestry zone Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 McShane accepted Councilmember Nelson's suggestion as a friendly amendment. Motion carried unanimously. Aamot stated another issue is non - conforming surface mines. The Planning Commission agreed with the language in the ordinance. The only difference was with the five -year rate of extraction. The existing code says certain mines are limited to the average rate of extraction for a five -year period. The Planning Commission wanted to keep that requirement. Section 20.83.020 on Council packet page 21 defines what this regulation does not apply to. McShane stated he sympathizes with staff on the timing issue, but he would recommend the Planning Commission recommendation to leave the requirement in the code. Aamot stated the Land Use Division does not disagree with the concept, but it is difficult to enforce. Let it be handled through the conditional use permit. The hearing examiner could specify how much gravel could be extracted. McShane stated it's the same problem with MRL designation. One of the controls on nonconforming mines is how quickly they can extract, and the impacts to neighbors when mining activity drastically increases suddenly. If a nonconforming mine wants to mine at a higher rate, it can go through the MRL process. There are two amendments to the ordinance. He moved approval of the ordinance as amended. Aamot stated there are three amendments. There was an amendment to each of the rural forestry, commercial forestry, and rural zones. Dawson asked why they would not be consistent with amendments to the agricultural zone. McShane stated mining is to make the land more farmable. The primary purpose is not mining. It is farm enhancement. Nelson stated forestry does not do mineral extraction to enhance forestry practices. Dawson stated she preferred to be fair and allow the six -acre limit in rural and commercial forestry zones. Motion carried unanimously. McShane stated they would schedule a public hearing at the next meeting. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 Nelson asked if they could docket the terrace issue for the Planning Committee. Aamot stated the Council could docket the issue by the end of the year. Nelson stated they should bring that to the Council. COMMITTEE DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL 1. ORDINANCE AMENDING THE WHATCOM COUNTY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN RELATING TO THREATENED AND ENDANGERED SPECIES (AB2001 -310A) Crawford asked why this item is not going through Planning and Development Committee. McShane stated it is both a Natural Resource and Planning issue. As chair of the Planning Committee, and recognizing the full schedule, he scheduled some issues in this committee. Crawford stated anything to do with Comprehensive Plan changes ought to go to the Planning and Development Committee. Matt Aamot, Senior Planner, stated that last year staff was asked to explain some things in other committees so they don't get bogged down. Nelson stated this committee used to be called the Water Resource Committee, but it was changed to the Natural Resources Committee to take on tasks like this. Every committee comes out with recommendations to the full Council for review. Committees were designed to relieve the workload and provide a continuation and continuity of process to the full Council. It is not a reflection of whether a committee should or shouldn't see an item. This is certainly a natural resource issue. It is not an attempt to circumvent the Planning and Development Committee. Crawford stated he didn't mean to imply that. He suggested developing a schedule to allow the Planning and Development and Natural Resources committees to work more closely together. (Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side A.) Aamot stated the federal government listed both Puget Sound chinook salmon and bull trout as threatened in 1999. The native North Fork chinook stock averages 133 adults returning to spawn. The native South Fork chinook declined to about 107 adults returning to spawn, from 1995 to 2000. The proposed amendments would recognize the long -term declines and strengthen the policies in the Comprehensive Plan on threatened and endangered species. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 Dawson asked how many returning hatchery fish there are. Aamot stated he would provide that information when he finds it in his file. Dawson stated a judge in Oregon ruled that they have to include hatchery fish on endangered species. McShane stated this judge has a record of being overturned in federal district court. He read the court decision. The judge's decision may not hold up. Crawford asked if there are regulations regarding the tribes taking salmon out of the river. Someone told him that they purchased 26 native chinook salmon on the reservation. He questioned whether the tribe knows they are not supposed to take those fish. John Thompson, Endangered Species Act Resources Planner, stated that with the chinook, both Lummi and Nooksack tribes have fishing regulations so they do not exploit the native stocks for commercial fisheries. There may be some ceremonial, subsistence take. They have worked out with federal agencies when the tribes would take those fish. Those fish have been in a conservation status from a tribal fishery perspective for almost 20 years. There are fall chinook that are returning quite well now. The fish purchased were probably fall chinook. The fishing is open on them. They are of Green River hatchery origin, which were not marked until a few years ago. Those fish purchased may be older than those that were marked. They used to barcode and tag the fish. Not all have the coded wire tag. The North Fork hatchery is a supplementation program for the native chinook. The Kendall hatchery no longer raises fall chinook. They take the returning native North Fork chinook and do a supplementation program to keep the numbers up. The numbers quoted are those native stock returning those to spawn from the wild. They can discriminate which fish are spawned in the wild from one that was raised in the hatchery. The numbers in the North Fork have increased in total numbers, but the native spawning fish are still at a critically low level. Nelson questioned whether hatchery fish levels that are increasing and native species levels that are holding steady has an impact on the ability for the native species to reproduce, and on the available habitat for the native species. An increasing number of non - native species are competing. Thompson stated the increasing number he referred to is the native species with a hatchery component. They are taking in the North Fork native spring Chinook and spawning a portion of the returning adults to raise eggs in the hatchery because there is better survivability. They are genetically native. Nelson asked if the bottom line is that native species are increasing. Thompson stated they are if they look at total numbers. If they look at the ability of the freshwater habitat to reproduce itself, they are not getting sufficient freshwater survival to replace itself with just the natural habitat. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 7 1 Nelson stated that could be true because the fish raised in a hatchery are 2 larger than the native, and they will compete with the smaller natives. Thompson 3 stated data shows egg -to- emergence survival rate rather than post- emergence 4 growth. The number of smolts swimming out to sea is not the problem. 5 6 McShane stated the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) considers the 7 enhancement of spring chinook essential for recovery, but not in Oregon. In 8 Oregon, the hatchery fish are not considered essential for recovery. This court case 9 would not apply here. In this case, NMFS did consider the hatchery fish essential 10 for recovery. Thompson stated that is correct. They are looking at recovery at a 11 couple of levels. One level is on the scale of the Puget Sound. They are also 12 looking on the scale of the individual stock. Other stocks, such as fall chinook, are 13 listed, but are not considered essential for recovery. 14 15 Crawford asked the difference between "fish" and "fishery." Thompson 16 stated "fishery" is the act of fishing and taking fish. 17 18 Crawford asked if the Endangered Species Act is to protect fisheries, or the 19 ability of people to go fish, as opposed to protecting the fish. Thompson stated the 20 purpose of the Endangered Species Act is to protect the fish. The direction that the 21 recovery planning is going for Puget Sound and salmon in general is to not just 22 protect a museum level of fish, but have enough fish for harvesting in the future. 23 24 Crawford asked why the government would not take an approach that a 25 decline in overall numbers would necessitate a cease of fishing. When the fishing 26 take is restored, then regulate the level of fishing like they regulate hunting. The 27 fisherman would buy a license for a certain amount of fish. Thompson stated they 28 already do that for sport fishing. Tribes are licensed and regulated fishermen. The 29 harvest managers look at the run forecasts, and will set the number of fish that can 30 be caught from the different runs. They are already highly - regulated in that area. 31 For the really sensitive spots, to reduce incidental or accidental take, they have 32 severely reduced other fisheries. The key is that harvest impacts is a factor in the 33 decline of the fishery. Also habitat, hydroelectric, and hatchery are impacts. 34 Harvest impacts is one component. Based on data and science, cutting off 35 harvesting entirely won't bring the fish back. Habitat is what the Comprehensive 36 Plan amendments focus on - that segment of the four H's that the County is 37 responsible for regulating. 38 39 Dawson read the RCW from the Building Industry Association (BIA) proposal. 40 She asked how the term "fisheries" would be interpreted. Thompson stated the 41 portion of the population that can be harvested in whatever manner, and still 42 maintain the population in a healthy status. Fisheries could be specific to catching 43 fish. It could also be used in a broader context of the population. 44 45 Nelson stated that chemistry, for example, involves the chemist, the 46 chemicals, the learning process, and the discovery process. It involves the people, 47 the production, and the process. It is the same with fishery. 48 Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 Crawford stated his interpretation of the BIA recommendations is that if something is adopted, the language should not vary from the state regulation. The BIA pointed out the discrepancy in the regulations, which could have an impact. Aamot stated that in the land use chapter, there is a proposed policy to prevent degradation of habitat; to encourage restoration of habitat, which was deleted by the Planning Commission; and to place a note on permits when a site is near endangered habitats, which is an education component. Staff also recommends that subdivision and short plats be clustered if there is a stream that contains threatened and endangered species. The idea was that the stream be kept in the reserve tract, and the buffer could be maintained. The Planning Commission did not agree with that. In the capital facilities chapter, the staff proposed a policy that says the County will take a close look at habitat for threatened and endangered species when developing plans for County buildings and parks. In the utilities chapter, one policy was proposed that would indicate that utilities and power - generating facilities should not adversely impact the stream flow needed for endangered or threatened salmon. The Planning Commission deleted that policy. The transportation chapter included policies relating to culvert replacement to allow fish passage, treating stormwater for roads, addressing wetland impacts, and retaining and repairing vegetation. In the economics chapter, there was one change. An existing policy related to working with other groups to improve fish habitat. Staff suggested modifying that to give priority to habitat for threatened and endangered species. The resource chapter deals with agriculture, forestry, and mineral resources. Agricultural policies would be modified to encourage adequate riparian buffers, fencing, integrated pest management to address water quality. The County Council clarified that those activities would be voluntary instead of mandatory. Forest practice policies include stream buffers. Most of that is regulated by the State Department of Natural Resources (DNR), although there is a change to the state law in 1997 that said the county was to take over class IV forest practices for conversions by the end of this year. Mineral resource land policies include several changes. One change was to avoid mining in the flood plain. The Planning Commission did not agree, and deleted the change. Another change was a policy of avoiding gravel bar scalping where it would adversely affect habitat or spawning areas. The environment chapter included action items to translate policy to regulation. There were action items to update the shoreline program, critical areas ordinance, stormwater, and land clearing standards. The state law says the county has to update its shoreline program within two years of the state Department of Ecology (DOE) adopting their guidelines, which they did in November 2001. However, those were invalidated by the shorelines hearing board, so that deadline Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 has changed. There is also a growth management requirement that the county review and amend, if necessary, the critical areas ordinance to adhere to changes in the Growth Management Act, such as considering best available science. There is a typo on Council packet page 115, policy 11J -2. Only strike out "chinook salmon and bull trout." The Planning Commission did not strike out the entire sentence. Emily Salka, Building Industry Association (BIA), stated her comments are not opinions of support of the ordinance, but recommendations of things that need to be clarified or corrected. She read from her handout (on file) dated September 24, 2001. Nelson questioned whether NMFS has included language for recovery. Thompson stated NMFS is working on recovery language now. It will come forward in a few months. Salka continued to read from her handout. In goal 8I, there are no criteria to determine whether something has been adversely impacted. The term should be clarified further. McShane stated he had a discussion regarding the term "significant." In the case he was dealing with during this discussion, the term "significant" actually means something. It is a standard word that is used. He questioned whether staff sees the term "adversely impacted" while working with the Endangered Species Act. Aamot stated they are setting a general policy direction, which would be implemented specifically with regulations such as the critical areas ordinance. They are trying to convey an idea here that will be fleshed out in the regulations. To say that "adversely impacted" is a specific level of impact would be difficult to do. They are just trying to convey an idea. Specific things can be done, and those things will be developed or confirmed in other ordinances. Thompson stated that getting consistent wording, as is being suggested, is important. With ESA, anything negative to species and habitat is considered a take. If a County road project is going to impact the habitat of an endangered species, the federal agencies won't allow mitigation. The habitat is simply supposed to not be impacted. There aren't clear criteria for adverse impacts. Those would come out in the development of a biological assessment, and the subsequent biological opinion. McShane asked if people doing assessments use the word "adverse." Thompson stated he didn't know. Salka questioned how adverse impacts would be enforced if they are not defined. It is subjective. Thompson stated these are goals, policies, and directions. These aren't the actual regulations that contain the specific criteria. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 McShane stated they are talking about a policy. When they define what actually happens, Ms. Salka suggested there is a range of what that means. That range is okay from a policy standpoint, but is more difficult when it becomes an enforcement issue. Aamot stated that in an enforcement context, they would be enforcing regulations. McShane stated the Council would be allowed some discretion on what it considers adverse as it creates the County codes and plans. Nelson questioned why they would choose the negative. If the policies are going to be about buffers, sedimentation, and riparian stream functions, they could require that forest practices enhance habitat. Policies are trying to enhance habitat by providing protection of the riparian buffers or reduction in sedimentation. It is much easier to develop programs and help foresters. Thompson stated goal 8I is for not doing any harm. They already have an existing buffer out there. They are not evaluating whether that buffer is providing the full functions that the stream needs to be a healthy and fully functional stream. There is a certain set of functions that the buffer is already providing. They are going to ensure that those functions will be protected. To enhance goes beyond that. It means that one would go into a buffer that could lack woody debris recruitment potential, for example, that has to be enhanced. They are talking about protecting what they have, and not decreasing the function of those buffers. (Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side B.) Thompson continued to state that restoration is an opportunity to provide incentive to encourage folks to improve functions on a voluntary basis, instead of requiring it. Nelson stated either they are going to enhance habitat and restore fish, or just say they will not do any worse. Thompson stated that is a key policy issue. Internal consistency is very important with this. Nelson stated he has not seen a lot of consistency in the process. Salka stated "adversely impacted" is not defined clearly. The term "significant" is used and has a factual basis. She continued to read her handout. McShane stated the NMFS takes a different view of the hatchery stock in the Nooksack River than it did in the Oregon case. Salka stated the GMA requires that economic impacts be taken into consideration. No economic impact analysis has been done. It is important for the public to know what the cost of this will be so they can make their own decisions. Crawford stated that if an analysis could be done, then the County could partner with the BIA and the Agricultural Preservation Committee. This is going to Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 have an impact on the BIA like no other group. The Council could partner with some of the community economic associations to look into that issue. Nelson stated he would appreciate any type of partnering, but the study will be suspect. Dawson stated she was impressed with the thoroughness of the handout. She hoped the committee would consider the recommended changes. Crawford stated he was confused about what the Council's directive is and timeframe for doing this change. This is one of eight Comprehensive Plan amendments that will be considered concurrently on November 30. The staff brought this up to the Council, and the Council docketed it. He asked the staff's thinking in terms of the timing of this. Aamot stated the staff's original thinking when the endangered species listing came up, two to three years ago, was that salmon are important to the area. That is why staff brought this forward. Senior Civil Deputy Prosecutor Dan Gibson addressed the Planning Commission about protecting the County from liability due to permits it issues that result in a take. Staff's goal was to bring it to the Council's attention, and request this for the sake of protecting fish and protecting the County. Crawford stated he knows of two attorneys who he would like to present to the Water Resources work session about how necessary this is, and the timing. The Council majority chose not to do that because special attorneys would politicize the process. He wants to have a different perspective. He also understands that this is just a Comprehensive Plan change, which don't have an effect of law other than it be a guideline under which ordinances shall be shaped. Nonetheless, once something is in the Comprehensive Plan, they become the checkpoint against which future ordinances are proposed. Every one of the planning issues references the Comprehensive Plan. These are important things. He still feels it would be appropriate for the County Council to hear from certain attorneys about other points of view. This is politics and this is a legal issue. They need to have an absolute open mind before they jump in and do this. Nelson stated he's gone through the Growth Management Act process. Many attorneys have different opinions, which they will hear as they go through this process. Attorneys have an opportunity to come to the Council to present their information, but they have not come. Crawford stated the Council doesn't have an agreement with its attorney's office on medical waste, so it went out and got a different attorney. McShane stated he would be open to Mr. Zender speaking to his committee on the policy and goal changes. He is familiar with Mr. Zender's report. There is no lack of consistency from Dan Gibson on the stormwater issue. He would be interested to see what Mr. Zender thinks of this, and anyone else. If Mr. Zender chooses to comment on the amendments, it would be wonderful. This is a significant issue. Getting input in the public process is beneficial. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 12 1 Nelson stated Mr. Crawford could invite Mr. Zender, but it is not appropriate 2 for the Council, as a Council, to invite certain attorneys. They will all want to come 3 in. If he wanted to invite someone, he would. 4 5 McShane stated he found that Mr. Zender's views were consistent with what 6 they are trying to do now. The committee will try to do something with ordinances 7 that try to bring back fish. It is a significant industry that has shrunk from the 8 county. Regardless of endangered species, it would be nice to have the streams full 9 of fish. They need to have language in the Comprehensive Plan to go forward with 10 some of the changes that they might need to do. They will have more time now 11 that the shoreline guideline has been postponed. 12 13 Crawford stated he needed to educate himself by getting a clearer picture of 14 where they've been with the Nooksack River, where they are today, and where they 15 want to go quantified in numbers of fish. He wants to hear a historical perspective, 16 understand the numbers, and understand where they are today. He doesn't 17 question that the activities happening now are great. He wants to know where they 18 were, where they are today based on good, best - available science, and where they 19 need to go. He wants to know what the historical levels of returning fish are. 20 Thompson stated the information presented for the North Fork only goes back five 21 or six years. That is the amount of time they've been gathering the specific 22 samples to distinguish the hatchery- reared native fish from the naturally spawned 23 native fish. They do have spawners survey information on the North Fork and 24 South Fork that is pretty detailed going back to the early 1980's and, in not as 25 much detail, going back to the 1940's. That is information he will check on. When 26 he first started working for Lummi Nation in 1988, there was discussion then about 27 whether the Spring Chinook should be listed under ESA because the populations 28 were so low. The ESA listing was not the result of a precipitous decline the last five 29 years. It has been going on for decades. Part of reconstruction of the historical 30 populations involves what they can pull out of the historic spawner numbers and 31 the historical harvest numbers, what the population looked like, and the habitat 32 that was available historically to support that population. They need to know 33 whether the South Fork, 150 years ago, had the habitat to support 150 fish or 34 15,000 fish. That would determine, in part, what the restoration goals are. Once 35 they know the population targets, they can plan their habitat priorities. 36 37 Nelson stated he wants to know what the elusive goal is. If they don't 38 pinpoint the goal, it becomes a mechanism in which the government uses a 39 perception of concern to manage land uses, forest practices, and agricultural 40 functions. The public never has a clear understanding of why they are doing it. 41 They need to have an understanding of the objective. The objective is not salmon 42 restoration, because there is no way to define that. He questioned the objectives 43 they are trying to achieve. If they can't define an objective, they can't tell the 44 public what they have to do. If the Council has to continually make ordinances and 45 laws that reflect the Comprehensive Plan, the public is going to question to what 46 they are restoring and enhancing. They may not need history to develop the goal 47 and objective. 48 49 Crawford stated they need history for perspective. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 Nelson stated NMFS will be the one to make that decision. Ask NMFS to make the decision. Thompson stated NMFS is working on the decision. They project to have population goals available in the next six to eight months. Nelson stated they need to put in the Comprehensive Plan that the County will begin working on those objectives in six to eight months. If the objectives don't come, the Comprehensive Plan means nothing. Thompson stated even if there hadn't been an ESA listing for bull trout, some of the goals they would still have for the local fish stocks and the habitats that support them. They are looking to provide a riparian buffer from certain activities. Much of it is to protect the fish, but to also keep the water cool. That is something that has a biological impact on fish as well as other aquatic organisms. There are other water quality parameters that could be affected by this. There is an obligation under the Clean Water Act to meet those standards. Those are numerical standards they can plan and regulate for. Dawson asked if removing gravel would lower the water temperature. Thompson stated he did not agree. They need to restore the physical processes that form good structure and habitat. By doing so, they will get the pool depth they need. Nelson stated Whatcom County's original form was as forestlands. That is what protected salmon and provided the habitat for chinooks. Thompson stated the direction they are going to is to identify where holding habitat is limited, where are the lack of pools that spring chinook are dependent upon, and where is the rearing habitat lacking that South Fork spring chinook use or coho use for winter or summer rearing. Use that information based on historical information to determine what they need to do to achieve the recovery goals. There is a systematic approach that can be used. McShane asked if it is appropriate to even reference recovery goals. Aamot stated they could do it by referencing them in the sense of endorsing something that is, at this point, not specified. McShane stated they could reference NMFS, but NMFS may go too far or not far enough. Being general is a good idea at this level. They may need background information to make changes to ordinances. Nelson asked the intent of the committee chair. McShane stated they are running out of time for this meeting. He questioned whether there would be a desire for additional information from staff. Nelson stated this is a Comprehensive Plan amendment. There are not specifics regarding fish. He was not sure they would get a lot of benefit out of this. Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 If they are going to work on this, make the assumption they will ultimately have to have these specifics anyway. If they are going to work on it, make sure it is reflective of their philosophical approach and not something of specifics. This is about how terms and words are approached, and how they are tied together with the rest of the Comprehensive Plan and the existing regulatory requirements. They may need information on whether this conflicts with any existing regulations. As a committee, he would be comfortable with having staff available and moving forward with his suggested changes. He would get many of his questions answered before the next committee, so they don't waste committee time. That is a direction other councilmembers could go, as well. McShane stated that if councilmembers have questions or want something clarified, they should do that. This item would be held in committee for two weeks to begin the process of looking at language. OTHER BUSINESS There was no other business. ADJOURN The meeting adjourned at 11:37 a.m. Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription ATTEST: Dana Brown - Davis, Council Clerk WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON Dan McShane, Committee Chair Natural Resources Committee, 9/25/2001, Page 15