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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPublic Works May 20 20031 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they are not the final approved minutes. WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL Public Works and Capital Projects Committee May 20, 2003 The meeting was called to order at 1:30 p.m. by Committee Chair Barbara Brenner in the Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington. Present: Sam Crawford Also Present: None Absent: L. Ward Nelson COMMITTEE DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL 1. DISCUSSION REGARDING SIGNAGE AT THE LUMMI ISLAND FERRY DOCKS (AB2003 -213) Jeff Monsen, Public Works Director, asked that the committee have this discussion in two parts. First, discuss the speed limit matters. Secondly, discuss the informational signs separately. Mike Donahue, Engineering Manager - Traffic /Development, stated they've gathered data through the years on speed limits. What is posted on the island is a limit of 25 miles per hour. There are not any 35 miles per hour speed limits on the island. Brenner stated she liked the idea of someone coming off the ferry and seeing information, even if there are posted speed limit signs. Joe Rutan, Assistant Director /County Road Engineer, stated the speed limit around the county, except Point Roberts, is 35 miles per hour unless otherwise posted. He provided a list of where all the signs for 25 miles per hour. Brenner asked if there is anywhere on Lummi Island where it is okay to drive 35 miles per hour. Rutan stated there is. Where the speed limit is not signed as 25 miles per hour, the speed limit is 35 miles per hour. The roads at Lummi Island that do not have speed signs on them are, by default, 35 miles per hour. Brenner stated the only signs they see on the island are for a limit of 25 miles per hour. She wouldn't assume a limit of 35 miles per hour unless there is a sign for 35 miles per hour. She asked at what point the road goes from 25 miles per hour to 35 miles per hour. Public Works and Capital Projects Committee, 5/20/2003, Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they are not the final approved minutes. Rutan stated he was just informed that there may be at least one speed limit sign on the island that says 35 miles per hour. Brenner stated she liked the language suggested for an informational sign suggested by Michele Luke. Rutan stated it would require an ordinance to put that sign up. The County would have to put up 35 miles per hour signs and take down the 25 miles per hour signs. Brenner asked if there are a lot of areas that are 25 miles per hour. Rutan stated they only sign a 35 miles per hour zone when changing to or from a different speed zone. Monsen stated about half of the roads on Lummi Island are in a 25 miles per hour speed zone. The other half are in a 35 miles per hour speed zone. The roadways that are predominantly driven on are the higher volume with a higher speed. The smaller roads have the lower speed limit. Brenner asked if the sign suggested by the citizen could be done. Wherever there is a change from 25 miles per hour to 35 miles per hour, it is posted. Rutan stated the sign is not in accordance with the County ordinance that says the speed limit is 35 miles per hour unless otherwise posted. Brenner asked the kind of ordinance on Point Roberts. Donahue stated the Point Roberts speed limit is 25 miles per hour, unless otherwise posted. Brenner asked how much of the road system is 25 miles per hour. Donahue stated Tyee and some of the other major roads might be higher than 25 miles per hour. Brenner stated they could do the same kind of ordinance for Lummi Island. Rutan stated there would be a cost for the sign replacements. They'd have to take down the 25 miles per hour signs and put up the 35 miles per hour signs. Monsen stated he can't tell that this is a suggestion to change anything from what exists now, but it is a suggestion to remind people of what the speed limit is. Brenner stated the concern from the citizen is that people come onto the island and don't know much about it. The purpose of the suggested sign was to inform the visitors, rather than the people who live there. Monsen stated that in most cases, the unfamiliar driver is probably driving slower than anyone else on the island. Brenner asked if they could put up signs on each dock to inform people of the concerns. Monsen stated informational signs of any type could be put up. An informational sign like this is not something that the Public Works Department can Public Works and Capital Projects Committee, 5/20/2003, Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they are not the final approved minutes. pay for because it is not a road purpose. The department can physically do the work as long as the funding for it comes from somewhere other than the road fund. Brenner asked if the road crew could put the signs up if the Lummi Island community paid for it. Monsen stated the crew could, but the community could find someone else to do it for less money. Brenner asked if the community could legally put up a sign at the dock, which is public property. Monsen stated it is possible, through an encroachment permit. He suggested that they be careful in the message that they are trying to communicate. He doesn't know if the suggestion from this person is what the entire community would want to see on an informational sign. Crawford stated this is a sign that tells visitors that the residents don't want other people on the island, to go home, and to stay away from Lummi Island. This is ridiculous. These laws apply everywhere in Whatcom County. He could put up a sign for his neighborhood. He doesn't believe that putting up a sign accomplishes anything. If the Lummi Island folks want to pay for it, he would entertain an application for an encroachment permit to put up an informational sign that displays the pride of the community. He is totally opposed to putting this stuff up. Brenner stated Lummi Island is much different than Mr. Crawford's home. They don't have good police. Mr. Crawford could get a sheriff's deputy at his place in ten or fifteen minutes. That isn't true at Lummi Island. Any time there is a problem at Lummi Island, it takes a lot longer to get anything resolved. She had no idea that leash laws applied there. That is extremely important for people to know. She also didn't realize that most, if not all, of the beaches are privately owned. Those are informational things that people should know when they go to Lummi Island. There have been a lot of problems with trespassing and harassment on people's property out there. If they want to add more things to a sign about the wonderful attributes of Lummi Island, then that would be fine. However, this concern is legitimate. It makes sense for a remote and isolated place such as this. This area doesn't compare to the rest of the county. If the sign is too negative, they can make it more positive. William Lee, 2171 Tuttle Lane, Lummi Island, stated that there are two issues here. The suggestions for the informational sign are important issues to the islanders. The Lummi Island Transportation Committee is often contacted about these kinds of issues. The trespassing issue is a very sensitive matter out there. It is a matter of people visiting the island, and also the islanders. A number of people have grown up on the island, and were there during a time when there were far fewer people and much less development. Even though most of the coastline is private property, there was a lot of use of the shoreline, by spoken agreement or accepted culture. In the last 20 years, that has changed a great deal. Now, it has become extremely Public Works and Capital Projects Committee, 5/20/2003, Page 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they are not the final approved minutes. touchy. In a number of places, people have allowed the public access, but that permission has been withdrawn because of a number of problems, both with visitors and islanders who can't quite accept the new reality or who don't respect the rights of the property owners. He appreciates that concern that they be positive, but stating the facts in a prominent place would be valuable to the community. It takes a lot of time to convince Lummi Islanders about things. A public statement would be a valuable addition to the community. The ferry dock is the most obvious. Several people have put little signs on their beachfront access trying to explain the matter. Something from the County government makes it clear. There is confusion in the minds of people out there. Regarding the speed issue, the signage has been confusing. He's told by islanders that, along Legoe Bay at one time in the past, there was a 25 miles per hour sign on one side of the road and a 35 miles per hour sign on the other side of the road. He thinks that's no longer the case, but there are a number of places on the island where there is confusion. A desire to have a blanket speed zone of 25 miles per hour comes from the way the roads are built and the fact that a lot of people are on bicycles or on foot. There are a lot of blind corners. Brenner asked if the idea of a blanket 25 miles per hour zone has ever been discussed at the Lummi Island Transportation Committee. Lee stated it has been discussed. They've brought it forward as a recommendation to the Public Works Department. Not everyone on the island supports it. Personally, he suggests having some sections of the road be 35 miles per hour is not unreasonable, particular for those who live to the south. There are some long, straight stretches of road. Much of the rest of the island is dangerous at 35 miles per hour because a driver can't see far enough to react. That is dangerous for pedestrians walking on the opposite side of the road. People are really concerned about safety. Brenner suggested that the Lummi Island Transportation Committee discuss the suggestion from Ms. Luke. If there is strong support for signage, bring it back to her. Today, she was interested in finding out if it could be done. Lee stated he'd be happy to do that. The problem is that they've had this discussion before. The question is always whether the committee is truly representing the community. They do their best to represent the entire community. Brenner stated that's all a committee can do. Lee stated the committee has been trying to find ways to short - circuit the emotion and personalities involved. He will also suggest that they try to do a ferry -line survey to show the County Council. That's not a perfect representation, but it might provide information on what the community wants. Brenner stated that is fine. She asked Mr. Lee to contact Ms. Luke. Public Works and Capital Projects Committee, 5/20/2003, Page 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they are not the final approved minutes. Monsen stated he's tried to make sure people recognize that there is a difference between the sign that is put up and what the drivers do because of the sign. How fast people drive is based upon their comfort level, not the sign, unless there is aggressive enforcement. Brenner stated that driving speed is also based upon some change that catches the driver's attention. Monsen stated that they should not expect driving patterns to change. It's more likely that some people will obey and others won't. They could have an increased risk. Crawford asked if the Sheriff's Office has a reader board. Rutan stated they .. Lee stated the Acting Sheriff visited the committee, which spoke to him about this issue. The sheriff was interested in finding someone who would like to record the traffic. The problem with having the reader board is finding someone on the island who would be responsible for it. The committee would like to follow up on that option. Other things are taking their attention right now. He will encourage the committee to do that itself, or find people on the island who would be willing to do that. The demonstration speed boards are excellent. Rutan stated the Public Works Department conducted a speed study on the island in 1999. That information is available. OTHER BUSINESS There was no other business. ADJOURN The meeting adjourned at 2:05 p.m. Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription ATTEST: WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON Public Works and Capital Projects Committee, 5/20/2003, Page 5 DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they are not the final approved minutes. 1 Dana Brown - Davis, Council Clerk Barbara Brenner, Committee Chair Public Works and Capital Projects Committee, 5/20/2003, Page 6