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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Special County Council
June 1, 2004
Council Chair Dan McShane called the meeting to order at 12:00 p.m. in the
Council Chambers, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
Present:
Barbara Brenner
Laurie Caskey- Schreiber
Sam Crawford
Seth Fleetwood
Sharon Roy
Absent:
L. Ward Nelson
1. DISCUSSION REGARDING WHATCOM COUNTY'S MASTER FACILITIES
PLAN (AB2003 -288)
Dewey Desler, Deputy Administrator, stated the administration is looking for
a major consensus on the part of the County Council about whether it prefers
option one or option two. The administration would finish the plan around the
chosen option. The public would respond to the draft plan. After receiving public
input, the Council would review the plan again prior to final approval.
McShane stated the Council went through the matrix process. The totals of
that process resulted in an effective tie between options one and two. The
councilmembers are having a hard time coming to a consensus on the greatest
option. They are divided.
Brenner stated she supports making the justice center work downtown,
where it is currently.
Fleetwood stated they all considered the options seriously. He and others
gave deference to the option of developing up, not out, to sustain land. Since then,
he talked to folks at the Public Facilities District (PFD), Centennial Commission, and
other players who are concerned about the development of downtown. All are in
favor of relocating the jail and courthouse to some place other than downtown,
because it would be a better vision for the area. He considered a scenario that
speaks to his concern about land supply and concerns of people who want the
service in the vicinity. He is interested in a middle - ground option. The decision for
him comes down to how far away they would send this facility. He's open to the
possibility of moving to new ground, but he needs to know where it is.
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 1
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
Caskey- Schreiber stated that perhaps there are other areas nearby to
consider. She asked if keeping it downtown, other than in the civic center area, is
an option.
Brenner stated people know and expect the County facility to be where it is.
If the County tries to relocate, people will be up in arms. That should be a high
priority. Don't be influenced by people who want the aesthetic civic area. They
aren't going to take the heat for this, the County will. They can build a jail facility
that would look appealing. The jail can look compatible with the PFD's vision. The
County should consider more the people who would be affected if the facility were
moved.
McShane stated that if he were just any citizen who lived nearby, he might
be up in arms if he saw anything that looked like option two. The downtown core is
very important to him as an individual. It's a neat city. They would detract from
the neighborhood significantly if the area were developed to option two. He lives
less than a mile from here and spends a lot of time downtown, not just on Council
business.
He desires a better vision for Bellingham. He's not enthusiastic about
locating to a remote, large parcel. There are clearly a lot of benefits to option one
in terms of ongoing operations. They may be able to find a place that is not
disruptive and is close to the legal community.
One possibility is to commit to not pursuing option two, without committing
to any other option. They could take option two off the table. It doesn't make
sense in terms of running the courthouse and jail. It also doesn't make sense for
the city's vision. It may be that they'll end up building a high -rise jail elsewhere in
the city to avoid sprawl.
Brenner stated she agreed that a citizen who lives close by wouldn't want the
facility.
McShane stated his concern is not with the existence of the jail. His concern
is with the appearance of the downtown area. The jail could be moved closer to
him, and he'd be okay.
Brenner stated they'll find citizens who don't want the facility nearby for all
kinds of reasons. The facility is here now and people expect it to be here. If the
County moves it, there will be a fight with people who don't want it elsewhere.
Caskey- Schreiber stated she hasn't heard anyone speak strongly in favor of
option one. The highlight of what they don't want is to create sprawl somewhere.
She's open to modifying option two to a better location. Councilmember Brenner's
concern is a risk wherever they have to move to, but eliminate option one and
modify option two.
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 2
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
Crawford stated he was in favor of option two until this year. He has always
felt the County could expand. After going through this process, he's changed his
position. They've paid some serious dollars to consultants to help them understand
what works in other places and what will work for Whatcom County. Advocacy
groups such as the Law and Justice Council, the Centennial Fund and the PFD
believe it makes sense to go with option one. That said, he agrees with
councilmembers Fleetwood and McShane. He asked if option one can only go in the
urban growth area (UGA). He asked if there could be a search for a spot nearby for
option one. Finding that acreage would be tough. Certain industries around town
are on rather large footprints and those locations may become available. He asked
the next step in the process if they gain a majority vote on option one. Desler
stated the administration would work to build site criteria. He's heard that the
County Council doesn't want to create sprawl and wants easy access for people to
use the facilities. At that time, use that criteria to do review of possible sites for
option one. They haven't done that yet.
Crawford stated that if they move forward on an option, the administration
would come up with design criteria. They're still not talking about a specific
location. Desler stated they may be able to narrow the options. The administration
talked with the City and County planning departments about ideas and options. It's
incredibly difficult. The administration is not taking any action until it's heard
where the County Council wants to move.
McShane stated it's not worth working on something with a split vote from
the Council. He doesn't see much enthusiasm for option one as it's laid out in the
packet.
Crawford stated he has enthusiasm for option one if they could go from the
option as it is presented to a design for a site closer in the city, with no money
expended. The challenge is getting the enthusiasm for every decision that must be
made along the way.
McShane stated he's not hearing anyone else with that enthusiasm. Mr.
Crawford has a lot of caveats with his approval of option one. He's not hearing that
anyone wants to go with option two. It's not a good idea. They're going to move
the jail and create a justice center. It doesn't have to be on a 50 -acre parcel. Pull
away from the idea they are going to expand the law and justice center on this
current footprint by building up. Commit to doing it somewhere else, then evaluate
the land availability at another location. Look at those options, and the land will tell
them what's available. Commit to moving other County activities and moving them
to this campus. He asked if that's helpful to the administration. Desler stated he's
heard from other councilmembers who want to understand where an alternative
site would be. He asked for the Council's criteria and options for a land purchase.
McShane stated this isn't the time to ultimately make the final decision. Any
decision now will go to the public for input.
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 3
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
Brenner stated she's not opposed to it being somewhere other than this
footprint. They can't even get through the Division Street property for the
temporary jail. The search has already been done. There isn't anything available
close in. Don't shut the door to the downtown core. It's important to keep that
option open. Desler stated they have not done a search. Regarding the Division
Street property, the City offered to sell the property to the Walton Company. That
deal did not go forward. The County approached the City when he heard about it
because it seemed it was something the County could do quickly. There's been no
deliberate effort to study properties.
Brenner stated the Council should table the decision until they do that
search.
Fleetwood stated he supports Councilmember Brenner's suggestion. Don't
eliminate options. He will base his choice on whether there is a demonstrated
commitment to sustainability. His criteria is that the site not be a flat, sprawling
site located so far away that people who rely on these services have to change
everything. Having a list of possible sites would be helpful.
Roy stated doing a study will unleash everyone who lives around those
possible sites. Also, the price may go up once people know the government is
interested. She's not willing to give up on option two. There is a negative
perception about having a jail nearby, but now there is a post office, library, and
children's museum across the street from the existing jail. She liked the idea of
looking at other places around the city core. The concerns about the ambience of
the area are overstated.
Fleetwood stated a number of people have a vision for this area, which is to
use the area day and night, as opposed to just as a daytime work area. Some of
the uses proposed for this site are exciting. He supports that effort if they can still
build the law and justice center not too far away.
Caskey- Schreiber stated there is a large jail downtown Seattle that has not
hurt the cultural viability of that area. The two can coexist. There is a strong
cultural and arts community going on during the weekends in Bellingham. The jail
has not hindered that connection. The presence of a jail won't hinder that vision.
There is a need to provide housing and security for the community. They have to
have the jail somewhere. They may be forced to choose option two.
McShane stated there is no zoning for jails in Bellingham, except the
temporary zoning at Bakerview.
Sylvia Goodwin, Planning Division Manager, stated that's correct.
McShane asked if they would not have the option to expand the zone at this
downtown location. Desler stated the County would have to go through a formal
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 4
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
process to seek conditional use expansion. There are requirements the County has
to meet to get approval.
McShane asked if a significant expansion at this location would require an
environmental impact statement (EIS).
Harris Faulkin, HDR Team Project Manager, stated it would. Options one and
two would both require an EIS. Option one would require a rational evaluation of
alternative sites. If someone were to take offense at a preferred site, that person
would allege that this site was not the preferred location, and the County didn't use
a rational and objective approach to find the site. The County has to have an
alternative. The site selection the Council is proposing is something they'd have to
do in any event. To expand this civic center location, they will have to look at other
locations as well. This is a substantial action by the County and would trigger the
EIS process. Alternative site review is integral. No matter what option they
choose, consider a set of alternatives.
Desler stated the County would require cooperation from the City of
Bellingham, no matter what decision the Council makes. The County would look to
the City being involved in the review. The mayor's management team commented
some months ago that option one be the clearly preferred alternative. Constructing
something inside the city, with the intensive use of public transportation, would be
part of their vision for the future.
McShane stated the City will have a huge say in what the County does. He's
not seeing any clear direction from the Council today.
Fleetwood asked about the administration's thought on the possibility of
putting together a study of possible sites. Desler stated the administration can
construct site criteria and how certain sites would match that criteria, without
tipping the balance in terms of specific sites. For some years, the administration
has put off making investments because it felt the County should do that around a
clear plan. The County has not used a plan for 50 years. There is a less than
effective organization as a result. He urged the Council to help make those
decisions.
Fleetwood asked what drives the timeline. Desler stated many County
offices are full. Many buildings need significant repair or to be abandoned. They
don't want to make repairs, and then leave the buildings. They are holding off on
critical decisions.
(Clerk's Note: End of tape one, side A.)
Desler continued to state that they would rather make decisions in the
context of a plan the community can support. The public deserves to have a vision
of the County that is long -term. The public needs to be involved in the revenue
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 5
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
decisions the County will make. The public will be more supportive with a clear
plan.
Caskey- Schreiber stated her conversation with Mayor Asmundson and a City
Council Member was that they both desire to keep law and justice functions
downtown. Desler stated it would be useful to have a clear written statement from
the City, but they don't have that.
Brenner stated staff could decide on different sites and have a presentation
in executive session on specific sites. It's important, before they eliminate any
option, to look at sites that are available.
Roy stated that unless the facility stays here, they are going to have to look
at sites, regardless of what they do.
Caskey- Schreiber asked if the Port ever sells its holdings. Desler stated the
Port leases its property.
McShane moved to remove option two from consideration and pursue, in
some form, moving the justice center to a new location outside of its current
location.
Motion failed 2 -5 with McShane and Crawford in favor.
Brenner moved to ask administration to put together a list of potential law
and justice center sites in the city of Bellingham for review in executive session.
Motion carried 4 -2 with Crawford and McShane opposed.
McShane stated there is a lack of commitment to one option over another.
He's uncomfortable with expenses when there is not a commitment to go down that
route. That's why he voted no on the last motion. Maybe evaluating sites will be
useful and a commitment will come from it. He's uncomfortable because they're all
over the board. That will be a tough sell to the public.
Roy stated she's hearing consistently that they want to look for a footprint
smaller than 50 acres. She asked if that's true. One of the appeals to the current
setting is the smaller footprint. She suspects that's an issue they might have some
consensus on. Look at other sites with an eye toward a more compact complex. If
a smaller footprint were tied to the recommendation, most councilmembers may be
closer to making a decision.
Brenner moved to look at sites that are more compact than 50 acres.
Fleetwood suggested a friendly amendment that the presented list of
sites shouldn't be limited in size. Present everything that's available, but make an
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 6
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
effort to include sites that are less than 25 acres. This is an opportunity to gain
information that might bring them to some form of agreement.
Caskey- Schreiber suggested that the administration look at sites within the
city limits of Bellingham. They could separate the courts from the jail. She always
assumed they would keep them together. Make that official guidance to the
administration.
McShane stated a question is whether they decide to keep the jail and the
court system together.
Brenner withdrew her motion.
Crawford stated they can get away with a 20 acre site if there is stormwater
management on site and if the parking were multilayered. His support of option
one does not mean he supports using up 50 acres. Supporting one option or
another does not mean he supports a particular size.
McShane stated the motion is that no matter what they do, keep the
justice center and jail together.
(Clerk's Note: There was no formal motion.)
Crawford stated he supports keeping them together. He asked the point of
the motion. Don't restrict their options. He asked why they are making it a
significant point.
Caskey- Schreiber stated a recent court ruling upheld the decision that the
courts have to be located in the county seat, which is Bellingham. If they are going
to have courts next to the jail, they have to be in Bellingham.
McShane stated this motion gives direction to the administration to combine
the jail and justice system.
Fleetwood stated the recommendation from the Law and Justice Council and
criminal justice staff is to keep the two functions together.
Motion to keep justice and jail functions together carried
unanimously.
McShane stated he's hearing the councilmembers want to keep option two
available and to get more information about other sites. They could get site layout
scenarios.
list.
Brenner moved to include compact sites that are less than 50 acres in the
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 7
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
McShane asked if they want a more detailed view of the current option two,
or if option two as presented is okay in terms of the list of sites that are presented.
He's not interested in any more detailed evaluation of option two.
Brenner stated she doesn't care if they don't include option two. She has
enough detail on it.
Desler asked if the intent of the motion is for the administration to look at a
list of sites for a justice center inside Bellingham that would include compact sites.
The administration would present information on things like transportation, utilities,
stormwater, and other environmental concerns.
Brenner stated she is only interested in the amount of area available on each
site. She wouldn't mind having information on whether the center would fit on a
site.
Roy stated that if they look at more compact sites, there may be aspects of
option two that would be incorporated, such as a parking garage or a higher
building. The complex may include characteristics of both options, depending on
the site. That's why she would support this motion. It's helpful to have an idea of
how a site of a certain size could be developed.
Crawford asked if the administration has enough information from the
Council to come up with a list of sites. It sounds like the Council wants to do
everything in backwards order from what the administration originally planned.
Desler stated he respects that the Council wants more information about alternative
sites before making the decision about the viability of option one.
McShane stated he's not sure the sites and locations are critical. He's not
sure now that they should look at that. They want to know what the different sizes
of a campus would look like, such as a five -acre, ten -acre, or twenty -acre campus.
Ultimately, they need to have those visions. Ultimately, this decision will be only
partly the County's decision. The City is going to have to be committed to those
sites as well. Picking locations at this point in time would be almost absurd. Figure
out what different campus sizes would look like and how transportation would be
worked out.
Crawford asked if the County and City together would have eminent domain
and would, in reality, have every location as a possibility if they have the will to do
that.
McShane stated that the EIS process would have to be considered.
Desler stated the administration isn't emboldened to use eminent domain.
Having better information about the options is critical to making a decision and
presenting the case to the City administration. The City appreciates having options
to look at. Even though this might be perceived as spot zoning, the Planning staff
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
determined that zoning can be adjusted to allow something that is for a public
purpose.
Roy stated she supports Councilmember McShane's recommendation to look
at the development of different campus sizes. That serves her need just as well as
looking at sites. She wants a sense of whether they can develop a smaller
footprint.
Brenner stated they may decide on a smaller footprint and find there are no
sites available in the city. She'd like to do both. See what sites are available and
also see the configurations of the center that would go on those sites. Her motion
is to include sites more compact than 50 acres.
Fleetwood stated he would also like to see both. It would be helpful to have
the benefit of all the knowledge they can get.
Caskey- Schreiber stated she will look at proximity to the downtown area so
they don't have to uproot a multitude of businesses, which have made significant
investments.
Motion to include looking at sites more compact than 50 acres
carried unanimously.
OTHER BUSINESS
There was no other business.
ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 1:25 p.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
The Council approved these minutes on June 15 , 2004.
ATTEST:
Dana Brown - Davis, Council Clerk
WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
Dan McShane, Council Chair
Special County Council - Master Facilities, 6/1/2004, Page 9
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DISCLAIMER: This document contains the Whatcom County Council or Committee
minutes, as approved. However, unless an attested signature page is attached, they
are not the final approved minutes.
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