HomeMy WebLinkAboutSpecial Committee of the Whole August 28 20071 WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
2 Special Committee Of The Whole
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4 August 28, 2007
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6 Council Chair Carl Weimer called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m. in the Council
7 Committee Room, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
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9 Present: Absent:
10 Barbara Brenner Seth Fleetwood
11 Dan McShane
12 Sam Crawford
13 Laurie Caskey - Schreiber
14 L. Ward Nelson
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17 OTHER BUSINESS
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19 1. DISCUSSION WITH CHIEF CIVIL DEPUTY PROSECUTOR RANDALL WATTS
20 REGARDING PENDING LITIGATION (AB2007 -018)
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22 Brenner moved to go into executive session.
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24 Motion carried unanimously.
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26 (Clerk's Note: The Committee came out of executive session.)
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28 Nelson moved to accept the agreement for the damages as stated in the
29 agreement, for $50,000.
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31 Motion carried unanimously.
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33 2. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING A PROPOSAL TO SEND
34 LETTERS TO VARIOUS GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN ABBOTSFORD, B.C., AND
35 THE WASHINGTON STATE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
36 CONCERNING THE NATURALLY OCCURRING ASBESTOS IN THE SWIFT CREEK
37 AREA (AB2007 -092)
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39 Brenner stated she would like to accept the Executive's drafts as substitute versions,
40 with one addition and using the original names and addresses. In the letter to the State
41 Department of Natural Resources (DNR), add language, "Because a. significant portion of the
42 material in question originates on Washington State Department of Natural Resources
43 (DNR) land, it is our opinion that...."
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45 McShane asked if that's true.
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47 Pete Kremen, County Executive, stated it is, to the best of their knowledge. A
48 substantial or significant amount of the material in question originates from DNR land.
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50 Tom Westergreen stated that right now, just the toe of the slide is not on DNR
51 property.
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Committee of the Whole, 8/28/2007, Page f
Weimer stated both of the letters are to help get the Canadians to help push for
some resolution and to get the State on the hook for being involved, also.
Brenner stated that at the meeting, there was a DNR representative who didn't stay
for the meeting. The DNR representative should have been there.
McShane asked why the DNR would have any interest in this at all. Kremen stated
much of the material that is or will come down comes off its land. They should be
interested, regardless. The purpose of the department is natural resources. They should be
a stakeholder regardless. The fact that a significant amount of material originates from
DNR land underscores the need for the DNR to be part of the solution.
Caskey- Schreiber asked what the County hopes to accomplish from a meeting with
them.
Brenner stated costs will be involved. The costs shouldn't be borne by just Whatcom
County, but should be borne by the State and federal government.
Caskey- Schreiber asked if they have figured out the itemized costs to fix the
problem. She thought they haven't yet decided what to do with the material. She asked
what costs the County will ask of them.
Brenner stated the County will ask them for contributions to Fgure out solutions to
those questions. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) sent only a talking head to the
meeting. It was a complete waste of time. The County must have federal indemnification
of some sort.
Caskey - Schreiber asked if Whatcom County has identified the course of action it
wants to take. Kremen stated Whatcom County has identified some courses of action, but
they won't know what to do until the EPA says what will be or won't be required. He asked
an EPA attorney if the EPA had considered the health risks of doing nothing. The attorney
told him that the EPA hasn't considered that. That needs to be considered. It's possible
that the risk to the public is greater by leaving the material, doing nothing, and allowing the
material to go down river, It may be more prudent and safer to actually move the material.
Caskey- Schreiber stated they should maybe get the answers figured out with the
EPA before going to these entities to ask for help.
Weimer stated the thought is to involve the Canadians so they can try and get an
answer from the EPA. EPA won't give them an answer to anything. If the Canadian
government starts asking why the material is being sent to Canada, the EPA will be forced
to provide an answer.
Kremen stated a resident of the area who attended the meeting suggested getting
the Canadian government involved to more pressure on the U.S. federal government. It's
prudent, and there's no down side. For years, the County has borne the cost for removing
this debris. The County is not obligated to remove the debris. The County has removed the
debris just because it's the right thing to do. The law doesn't mandate that the County
remove the material. However, the County is the least able to afford to do this, compared
to the State and federal governments. Whatcom County needs to involve the State and the
federal government as much as possible. The letters aren't incendiary or inflammatory.
Committee of the Whole, 8/28/2007, Page 2
Caskey - Schreiber stated she wants to know what they'll talk about if the agencies
agree to meet with Whatcom County. Kremen stated they need to bring this issue to their
attention. They're unaware of the severity of the issue and the timeliness. They need to
take action as quickly as possible.
McShane stated he would like to focus on what the DNR can work on. They won't
have much success if they talk about the material coming from their land. They don't care
what happens downstream. The DNR can assist with permitting land. The County is
moving and storing a lot of material. The DNR could play a role in how the County manages
activity that is essentially a mining activity.
Westergreen stated that the DNR doesn't want to be a stakeholder. It's trying to
avoid the situation. When they got the conditional use permit from the County, the DNR
didn't comment. They are doing gravel scalping with a County permit. The State isn't
getting involved at all.
McShane stated that's unusual. He wants to see focus on mining and removal, not
that the material is coming from DNR land. The State Department of Fish and Wildlife
should also be part of the solution in terms of a hydraulics permit. In addition, the
Washington State Department of Military, which works on emergency response and
planning, could be involved. This is the kind of thing in which that department engages.
Get the State agencies involved in deciding how to handle the material and move it around.
That's the issue. It's really not DNR land. The DNR manages the land for the Trust. The
DNR will not want to touch this issue.
Nelson stated it's important to include the DNR as a recipient of the letter. The head
of the department is an elected official, so the Governor may have difficulty trying to
convince the Commissioner of these problems.
Weimer stated they could send one letter to DNR and another letter to the Governor.
Someone said that the Governor is able to declare the area superfund site.
Nelson stated that's what they want.
Brenner asked why they need to send a separate letter to the DNR.
Weimer stated the issue with DNR is more about moving and mining the material.
McShane stated the letter should focus on what solution the DNR can bring to the
table, which is the mining permit. The Department of Fish and Wildlife should focus on the
wetland areas that will get buried in this toxic muck.
Brenner asked Councilmember McShane to come up with the wording.
Crawford asked if that area floods. Abbottsford has a vested interested because
there may be more flooding if Whatcom County doesn't dredge the area. He asked if they
are affected by flooding, Unidentified speaker stated it's mostly farmland.
McShane stated get Paul Pittman, who knows who's being impacted, involved. There
are issues about its effect on the pumps in the Sumas Lake and the deposition of the
material in that area.
Committee of the Whole, 8/28/2007, Page 3
1 Crawford asked if the bigger issue may be the sediment itself that ends up on the
2 Canadian side of the border.
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4 McShane stated it is. It may not settle in Abbottsford. He's not sure which regional
5 government in Canada would be involved.
6
7 Brenner stated Paul Pittman helped with the administration's version of the letter
8 already. They don't want to get more specific. They want to go slow until people are
9 involved. The Council Chair needs to work with the Executive about deciding with whom in
10 the administration these agencies will work.
11
12 Brenner moved to approve the letters with changes as discussed.
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14 Motion carried unanimously.
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16 McShane stated he will work on the letter to DNR.
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18 Nelson stated they should make sure they get Governor Gregoire involved.
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20 Weimer stated he would look into which British Columbia officials should receive the
21 letter. Councilmember Brenner will coordinate all these efforts to get the letters out by the
22 end of the week.
23
24 Larry Mades, 7689 Oat Coles Road, Everson, stated they put forward a list of
25 questions to the EPA. It's an urgent issue. The residents want the material removed. In
26 the last four days, they've contacted two gravel companies. Both have said that all they
27 need is something from the EPA, and they will be in to do the work. One of those
28 companies has also offered to do the dredging for the use of this material.
29
30 Crawford stated he thought no one can use the material. Mades stated they would
31 mix it with other materials.
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33 Brenner stated they can use it if they are indemnified by the EPA.
34
35 Mades stated that they can use the material, if the EPA can provide workable
36 guidelines that aren't too restrictive.
37
38 Weimer stated the concern was that it's not good aggregate, and no one really
39 wanted it.
40
41 Brenner stated those questions must be answered by the State Attorney General's
42 Office.
43
44 Weimer stated they can't get the EPA to say it allows anyone to remove the material
45 from the site.
46
47 Mades stated that the EPA attorney who attended the community meeting is too
48 focused on process, and nothing will get done.
49
50 Crawford asked about Congressman Rick Larsen. Mades stated the Congressman is
51 aware of the problem, but hasn't provided pressure to solve the problem. Senator Maria
52 Cantwell has gotten to the Army Corps of Engineers and is on its list for funding, but that
53 has to be voted on by Congress.
Committee of the Whole, 8/28/2007, Page 4
1
2 Brenner stated she would work with the residents on another letter. There needs to
3 be pressure on their federal representatives. The meeting with the EPA representative was
4 a complete waste of time.
5
6 Westergreen stated that EPA representative can make the final policy decision.
7 However, she's trying to get other people and departments involved. She also said that it
8 will take a specific project by Whatcom County to get other agencies involved. That may be
9 a way to get going.
10
11 Nelson stated the jurisdictions don't want to approve anything if they don't know
12 where the material will go and what will be done with it. Westergreen stated that's right.
13 Get something going to start with. Maybe not all the material has to be handled in a special
14 way.
15
16 Nelson asked if there is a way to get a consultant to identify mechanisms that can be
17 used so they can put together a package or program for how the material can be used.
18 Come up with specific mechanisms, lists, and criteria for how the material can be used,
19 even if they don't have a particular site in mind.
20
21 Weimer stated there is an overarching health concern first. Even if they come up
22 with a list, the EPA and Health Department won't say there's not a health concern.
23
24 Nelson stated there isn't anything for them to approve or not approve.
25
26 Brenner stated the County needs indemnification.
27
28 Nelson stated they aren't going to get it.
29
30 Mades stated the EPA wants to work in a vacuum. It doesn't want to involve the
31 residents or gravel companies. The EPA has said it doesn't know where the material has
32 been used in the past. All the EPA has to do is ask that question. It has been used and
33 capped in many places in Whatcom County. Test the areas where the material has been
34 used appropriately. The gravel companies are willing to talk if it will accomplish something.
35 They know where and how it's been used. However, the EPA wants to hire another
36 consultant.
37
38 Brenner stated that gives the EPA some separation from liability.
39
40 Crawford stated there are many things in the world that can be harmful. The
41 government has addressed it in the past with material safety data sheets (MSDS). It seems
42 it would be simple to use MSDS when working with the material. Things much more
43 dangerous than this are sold everywhere.
44
45 McShane stated they would take on the asbestos lobby, which is very powerful.
46
47 Westergreen asked the line where the risk is acceptable. There is very little risk
48 from this material. The State Health Department could not find one case of asbestos -
49 caused cancer in a population of more than 5,000. The rate in that area is lower than in
50 Bellingham and the State. Consider acceptable risk.
51
Committee of the Whole, 8/28/2007, Page 5
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Brenner stated they need to start with letters. She appreciates Mr. Westergreen's
concerns. They need some kind of indemnification that allows them to use the material in a
way that is less harmful than leaving the material alone.
Weimer stated that the State officials are concerned about the health risk. The
County won't receive indemnification until the health risk is addressed.
ADJOURN
The meeti journed at approximately 5:00 p.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
The Counci[,NRi;ppved these minutes on September 25 2007.
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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON
Carl Weimer, Council Chair
Committee of the Whole, 8/28/2007, Page 6