HomeMy WebLinkAboutCommittee of the Whole July 24 2007WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
Committee Of The Whole
July 24, 2007
Council Chair Carl Weimer called the meeting to order at 6:05 p.m. in the Council
Committee Room, 311 Grand Avenue, Bellingham, Washington.
Present: Absent:
Barbara Brenner None
Dan McShane
Sam Crawford
Seth Fleetwood
Laurie Caskey - Schreiber
L. Ward Nelson
COMMITTEE DISCUSSIQN
1. WORK SESSION TO DISCUSS POTENTIAL AND TIMING OF THE
REPLACEMENT OF THE WHATCOM CHIEF AND RELATED FINANCING AND
GRANT CONTRACTS (A132007 -311)
Frank Abart, Public Works Department Director, handed out a proposed agenda and
a summary of estimated costs (on file). He read the proposed agenda handout. There is a
big financial difference between the proposed grant from the State and someone handing
the County a check for $8.15 million.
If the County accepts this grant, it is not committed to sticking to the existing plan.
However, the plans were substantially complete. The State didn't think that the County
would spend four years to redesign a new boat. The State's proposed grant wasn't intended
for the County to spend many years in a redesign phase.
They have spent a lot of time looking at a range of different scenarios. The
information they have is as good as it's going to get. He read through the summary of
estimated costs.
They have generally thought about a cost of $14 million for a new vessel. It will cost
$8 million to $9 million for the boat itself. The rest of the cost would go to dock repair and
enhancements to accommodate the new vessel. Debt financing for that will be just under
$1.1 million per year. Of that, the County will have to come up with $689,000 per year for
20 years from the road fund. In addition, there will be an additional approximately
$200,000 for additional operating cost to the road fund.
Brenner stated the increased capacity of 40 percent is for the plan as it exists.
However, the County can purchase a State ferry that is currently not being used. It has
more capacity than the Whatcom Chief. She's heard it's in good shape. No one ever
discussed getting a used ferry in good condition. They should consider that option.
Committee of the Whole, 7/24/2007, Page 1
Brenner asked how not acquiring a new ferry would reduce financial demand on the
road fund. Abart stated that reduction is compared to the cost of a new ferry.
Brenner stated it's not a reduction to the road fund. It should say that it's less of an
increase to the road fund. Getting a used ferry in good condition that is larger than what
they've got may make the debt service a wash.
Dewey Desler, Deputy Administrator, stated the proposed grant regulations talk
specifically about the money being available for the purchase of a new vessel. Another
limiting factor is that the former Public Works Director submitted a project application in
December 2005 that talks about the purchase of a new vessel, which is the basis upon
which the funding has been made.
Brenner stated that the worst that will happen is that they'll find out the Whatcom
County can't do that. However, make sure it may be an option to consider, and then let the
State tell the County that it can't do something more efficient.
Caskey- Schreiber stated the point of the offer is to upgrade the ferry fleet across the
State. There is a lot of publicity about aging steel hulls. The fleet needs to be upgraded to
be Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) accessible. She's sure that this offer is conditioned
on the new ferry the County proposed to the State. Mr. Desler just said that the offer was
for the purchase of a new ferry, not a used ferry.
Nelson asked if the $689,000 per year cost is after user fee changes. Abart stated it
does not. It is just the debt financing.
Nelson asked how much would be collected in new user fees. Abart stated they don't
have that estimate yet. The user fee will go up. The operating expenditures will go up, and
is assumed that the fees will pay for 55 percent of the operating expenditures.
Brenner stated others have expressed concerns with the existing design. Look into
it. They don't have to go blindly down a road just because the State says they have to.
Weimer stated they are tied to using this grant money for a new ferry. That's what
the proposal is for. Abart stated that the proposal is granted for the purchase of a new
ferry. Also, the County has invested about $246,000 in that design.
Fleetwood asked if they can get answers to questions within the next two weeks,
which is before the grant acceptance deadline. Abart stated that they can.
Caskey- Schreiber stated the road fund has taken serious hits from many big
projects. She asked the long -term fiscal impacts from this added expense. She asked how
far back it sets the six -year transportation plan. Abart stated it doesn't have a huge impact.
It has some impact from the $800,000 to $900,000 cost every year. In six years,
something in the plan will probably have to be delayed, but nothing in the immediate three
years, based on the information he has at this time.
Caskey - Schrelber asked if they have established that the current ferry's longevity is
ending, or if the issue is just with ADA compliance. Abart stated he can't say that the
ferry's life is ending. People can make any asset last as long as they want, depending on
how much money they want to throw at it. The State is still running ferries that are 80
years old. They're probably not cheap to operate.
Committee of the Whale, 7/24/2007, Page 2
1 Caskey- Schreiber asked Mr. Abart's recommendation. Abart stated this is a very
2 important decision for the Council and Executive to make. There are two diverse
3 perspectives. From his perspective, the short -term, least cost alternative is to not get a
4 new ferry and use the existing ferry. The best value or investment for the taxpayers'
5 dollars is to acquire a new ferry. Beyond that is not his decision.
6
7 Weimer stated this may be the County's last shot at this type of money, because the
8 law for this type of funding has changed. Abart stated there used to be a State process for
9 ferry replacement requests every two years. The State requirements are changing so the
10 two -year window will still be there, but counties will not necessarily be eligible for
11 requesting projects. They can only request projects when the State says it is accepting
12 applications for those projects, which may not happen very often.
13
14 Desler explained how the grant process is changing. He doesn't predict that the
15 window for these funds will come up again.
16
17 Weimer stated another issue is the dock lease at Gooseberry Point. The Lummi
18 Nation plans a marina at that location at some point in the future. He asked if the County
19 has begun discussions with the Lummi Nation about those plans, and if those plans affect
20 which ferry the County purchases. Abart stated that issue doesn't affect the decision to
21 accept these funds or not. He's had informal discussions with the Lummi Nation's Planning
22 Director about getting together to talk about it.
23
24 Brenner stated she's had more difficulty getting in touch with Lummi Nation
25 representatives since Darryl Hillaire left their administration. That makes her more nervous
26 about the lease. She would like to get information as soon as possible about the Lummi
27 Nation's position about the lease. Abart stated he agrees.
28
29 Crawford asked the capital outlay for the vessel and the new dock improvements.
30 Abart stated the vessel cost today is approximately between $8 million and $9 million, for
31 the vessel they've planned. The dock repairs are about $4 million to $5 million. To be safe,
32 the estimated capital outlay is estimated at $14 million to $15 million. The State money
33 can be used for the vessel or the dock.
34
35 Brenner stated the County doesn't have to get a brand new ferry to accept the State
36 funds. There are three other things the County plans to do that will qualify for the funds.
37 She asked if a "new vessel" would mean that the vessel is new to the County. She would
38 like to know the name and phone number of the State contact person.
39
40 Caskey- Schreiber stated put this discussion on hold until they get that answer. If
41 the vessel has to be brand new, also find out if this offer is conditioned on purchasing the
42 existing design. Abart stated he asked that question already. The State will probably not
43 allow the money to be spent on a completely new, separate design. They may be able to
44 alter the current design in some way.
45
46 Nelson stated he is concerned about trying to make this decision on August 7. Try to
47 make this decision sooner. Also, the proposal included a specific design with a specific cost.
48 Abart stated he was told that they can alter the design. The proposal submitted was not
49 based on a certain cost. The proposal was based an a 35- vehicle ferry. There is a narrative
50 of the State's exact expectation.
51
Committee of the Whole, 7/24/2007, Page 3
1 Fleetwood asked if the administration intends to make a recommendation to the
2 Council on this matter. Desler stated the administration doesn't have a preference on this
3 matter.
4
5 Weimer asked if the $689,000 comes out of the road fund. Desler stated it could
6 also come out of the general fund, which would be a legitimate source. The six -year road
7 program amount and the amount available for construction projects is $34 million right
8 now. It does not include the $689,000.
9
10 Brenner stated she would like information on the problems with the Guemes Island
11 ferry, including information on its ballast tests.
12
13 Crawford stated councilmembers should remember that they've spent years on this
14 design. They've invested a good deal of money in this design. There is nothing unique
15 about the design. There are hundreds of ferries out there. Just because Whatcom County
16 has used an inefficient center cabin design for the last 40 years, they shouldn't narrow their
17 options. He asked why Councilmember Brenner is hung up on the design. The County paid
18 for the design to be tested in a special laboratory to deal with all these issues. He doesn't
19 understand what the Guemes Island ferry has to do with anything.
20
21 Brenner stated she has never supported this design. There are people with more
22 expertise than her who don't support this design. The County is going to spend a lot of
23 money on this. They don't have to keep going down the same path they're on.
24
25 COMMITTEE DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCI
26
27 1. REQUEST APPROVAL FOR THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE TO ENTER INTO AN
28 AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE WHATCOM COUNTY AND CRAB IN ORDER TO
29 RECEIVE CFCIP FUNDS TO CONSTRUCT A FERRY VESSEL REPLACEMENT OF
30 THE WHATCOM CHIEF IN THE AMOUNT OF $8,150,000 IN TWENTY ANNUAL
31 PAYMENTS OF $407,500 (AB2007 -311A)
32
33 Crawford moved to accept the $8.1 million from the County Road Administration
34 Board (CRAB) based on the application the County submitted.
35
36 Brenner stated she would support the motion, since it's not attached to the design.
37 She would still like the answers to her questions.
38
39 Motion carried 5 -1 -1 with Weimer opposed and Caskey- Schreiber
40 abstaining.
41
42 Caskey - Schreiber stated she doesn't have enough information.
43
44 Brenner stated she wants to change her vote. She doesn't have enough information
45 either.
46
47 Weimer stated the motion carried 4 -1 -2 with Weimer opposed and Caskey -
48 Schreiber and Brenner abstaining.
49
50
51 OTHER BUSINESS
52
53 There was no other business.
Committee of the Whole, 7/24/2007, Page 4
ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 6:45 p.m.
Jill Nixon, Minutes Transcription
The Council approved these minutes on September 11 , 2007.
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WHATCOM COUNTY COUNCIL
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Carl Weimer, Council Chair
Committee of the Whole, 7/24/2007, Page 5